Tuning problem - a nut thing?

[Tom]

Hey guys,

As previously posted, I completed my first Warmoth build earlier this year. The original neck I put on the body was fitted with the LSR nut. When I installed it, I only added a single shim on the nut and the result was that the guitar action was perfect. The bridge (Wilkinson trem) was pretty much screwed right down on the posts. The guitar stayed in tune very well (Wilkinson trem, LSR nut, Sperzel locking tuners). Unfortunately I didn't like the fret wire on this neck, so I bought another Warmoth neck from the showcase. Same specs as the original except for the wood, the fret wire (obviously), and I went with a TUSQ XL nut.

I'm finding with this new neck that the bridge has to be set with the posts backed out a bit for the strings to clear the frets, and it floats fairly high over the body. I'm also finding that the action is still fairly high... any lower and I start to buzz at the 12th fret and higher. Seems to me that the action at the nut is high on the bass side too. Also, really going out of tune easily... like a single dive-bomb and my low-E is out. So even with a new neck built to the same specs as the original neck, the only difference is the nut ... and I'm thinking this might be the issue.

Wondering if filing down the string slots might help to lower the action at the nut and maybe widen the slot so the strings glide a little easier.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

 

[Cagey]

Warmoth's nut slots are cut very well, but they're shallow in anticipation of the user perhaps wanting to deepen them. So, yeah. A little nut work is almost certainly in order.

Their frets are well done, but they're not levelled, crowned, dressed and polished. They install them and bevel them and call it a love story. Again, in anticipation of the user wanting to set them up to their taste. It sounds like at least one of your frets is sitting a bit tall. I've found there are usually 3 to 5 that need attention if you want a perfectly flat neck that lets you set your action as low as possible.

You may also need to adjust the relief. It's possible that the neck is flat, which would also account for the taller bridge setting and high-fret buzz if it's not a fret height issue.

In other words, what you need is a good setup.

 

[Day-mun]

I would definitly go through the Erlewine ten-step set process (-all ten in order) before determining that something needs to be cut/filed/shimmed/leveled. Doing only some set-up adjustments, or doing them out of order will cause such problems as you have listed. More than several times, I've had folks ask me to chop on their instruments and permanently alter them, then I found that the real issue was that their set-up was half-assed.

I do agree with you about the LSR nut: I strongly dislike using a guitar with a trem that isn't outfitted with a mechanical nut, and out of the two I've used, I prefer the LSR over the Wilkinson. A standard nut rarely works out flawlessly when there is a trem involved... -my huge opinion.

 

[stubhead]

You push down and hold the string at the third fret. Not hard so it bends or anything. Then you look at the height the string has passing over the first fret to the nut. Do each string separate. The high E should pass over the first fret about 0.010" above it, in other word's it's own thickness. The low E should pass over about 0.015" to 0.020" high*, in other words about the thickness of your G string. And the strings in between should match in a proportionate curve. If you can't see this, or if working in this small of a dimensional size is new, I would advise you to NOT immediately tear into it. You can learn this stuff and it's not rocket science, but if the desire to play a perfectly-adjusted guitar overwhelms your knowledge about how to do just that - you may end up massacring a number of nuts.

Just about always, I say people should buy Dan Erlewine''s "Complete Guitar Repair" before they start anything. There are certain things that bring applicable transfer credits to guitar work, but still - you don't want "Working on Guitars" to be some category of suckitude, you want an escalating series of successes. I mean, I sure as hell can't see the difference between 0.017" and 0.019" anymore, but - I know it, and I've got a whole lot of magnifying toys to keep it workable. If you ask absolutely perfect questions & possess a logical mind, you can learn how without a book - but there's a lot of crappy advice out there, too. 



*(there's a very minor adjustment to this - many people set strings 1 through 5, and treat the low E as a separate issue. Not important here.)

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the tips!

I did spend quite a bit of time levelling and crowning the frets, and usually can set up the guitar well ... but I hear ya'. I just bought Dan Erlewine''s book online. Seems like that would be a wise investment, and I'll walk through the set up as per his process before I do any potential damage. Thanks for the input.