Tremol-No?

[LushTone]

Does anyone have positive or negative experiences with this product? I appreciate the feedback!

 

[bagman67]

Our learned brother in guitarology, Stratamania, ran into difficulty with the Tremol-no installation as documented here:


http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=22445.msg338072#msg338072


Worth considering - the claw wound up a millimeter or so proud of the body surface in back.  Ergo:  no trem cavity cover, and you also have it hanging out just the slightest bit.

 

[stratamania]

I was just going to link to that but I see my esteemed forumite Bagman67 already linked to it.

I have tried the product in a Suhr that had one in, I think it was one of the last Guthrie Govan models. It did work well and does do what it says it will.

The unit I have is a well made device and I haven't given up on it and will try it on a future build.

My subsequent thoughts on the problem I ran into were to tape with masking tape a tremolo backplate cover over where the tremel-no will be so that when you do the initial prethreading of the screw holes going through the tremel-no itself it has to be below the backplate. Obviously the rear of the trem cavity is not covered by the backplate when doing this so you can get in with a screw driver and see what you are doing. You also need a long screwdriver to get the angle as low as needed.

But and this may be a variable if the pilot holes are off to start with just a tad you may still get the issue I had. This is what I think the problem may have been for me as when I reverted to a normal claw I had to file it down a little.

The next guitar I build which may be towards the end of this year may use this and if so I will document with photos or possibly video.

 

[stubhead]

I don't normally recommend a chicken-hearted, cheese-eating surrender setup approach, cowering under the bed wondering if you dare make another one-tenth of a millimeter adjustment... will the Goddess of String-Pings exert her wrath again? Will I ever sound in tune again in this lifetime? :sad1:

I have set up three of these things, and two of them are still on there, doing what they're supposed to do! Though, as a matter of course I just take the tightening screws OFF the bugger until I want it tight. You can put a real tiny O-ring or (more likely) cut out a tiny piece of, like, inner-tube rubber to increase the odds of those screws riding along with you hither and yon... but still. :sad: If I put them in a pill bottle in the guitar case, I know exactly where they are.  :icon_thumright:

Meanwhile: In setting up a non-Floydian whammy bridge, the string tension, string brand, string diameter, trussrod adjustment, intonation, spring tension, spring type, action height (meaning saddle height PLUS post height, or saddle height MINUS post height, IYKIM), picking attack and playing style are ALL INTERACTIVE. And, then, the Tremel-No adds about three or four MORE ultra-finicky adjustments that will then also insert themselves into the whole bloody interactive muck as detailed above. The science behind this is so:

X  x Y x Z x A x B x C x D x E = Howling Brain Fizzlebiscuits, OR:

X  x Y x Z x A x B x C x D x E (trem-o, no! o, no! here) TIMES %$& TIMES MORE XZY  TIMES MORE ZQ-effers TIMES Sex-with-Pineapples.... = Viciously atomic bomb-fired totally-incinerated BURNT Howling Brain Frizzbiscuits served with fermented ratbooger gravy.

So, personally, I think it's better to first set up the guitar without the thing on there. Use their claw, of course, you may have to fidgit that a bit to start, drill a friggin' HOLE in it for the grounding wire, etc. Make the mental accommodations for it, know which block and claw holes it's using, etc. But get the thing set up pretty close to where you're going to be playing it for a while at least. I tend to use the same string gauges for at least a year on a guitar, then I may switch it up for another year or so, But I've used strings long enough (40 years? Yikes!) that I have a pretty good idea of what strings will do what where. The truss rod adjustments and SADDLE HEIGHT ADJUSTMENTS aren't actually going to affect the No-No adjustments except as they exert a tiny bit of change in overall tension (thereby affecting the zero point). But the POST HEIGHT ADJUSTMENTS and spring changes (location, number & how screwed is the claw?) are all changing the GEOMETRY. Which matters.

1) Most guitars nowadays are sold with a basic "factory" setup, all the heights are done with calipers, every guitar is setup up exactly the same, it's a necessity for a manufacturer or sales shop. But, you won't use those strings, you won't use that action height etc. I actually don't ever finish setting-up my OWN guitars - a bit here, a but there. Occasionally I HAVE to take a whack (freebie) at a student's guitar, it's that or homicide if I have to listen to the damn thing ONE MORE TIME... at which point I do do the quickiest passible setup possible. But there's no such thing as "good enough for now" with the Tremol-No. Once you lay into that part, you have to keep going till it's perfect.

2) Some people will actually let the Tremol-No work at a bit of an angle, but that's sloppy IMO. It's just dumb, because:

3) Just LET the Tremol-No straighten out it's own final location! Put a tiny, tiny dab of Loctite or silicon tub caulk, or, or, anything really. House paint? TINY dab. You want to slightly gum up just the side-to-side adjustment screw, just enough that it stays where it should be when you wiggle the whammy up, down, up down etc. Then tighten it there.

I can't imagine making a trem guitar that ONLY bends down - the tone differential of it largely comes from the floatiness! And I would happily pay twice the price if they would make a model fully MACHINED out of tool steel. And the tiny hook that fits on the block is ridiculous - what you need is a whole 'nother BLOCK with a hole machined in from the side and a STAINLESS STEEL axle mounted IN the block. I hope I get old before I die.  :toothy12:

 

[Strat Avenger]

I use Trem-stops. Effective and inexpensive.

 

[Cagey]

I agree with Stubhead. Messing with such things will put your setup difficulty out in the tiddlywads. I've used one Tremol-no and one Trem-setter, and tossed them both. The Tremol-no got wrecked fairly early on due to design issues, and the trem-setter just messed with the feel too much.

There's a good in-depth discussion/review of such things here, if you're interested.

Personally, I've found that simply installing all the springs solves most problems. Makes the wang bar more difficult to operate - it really takes malice aforethought - but the return to neutral is much more reliable and you don't suffer from bridge movement due to string bending quite as much. It's cheap, easy and effective.

Pulling springs so you only have two or three counter-balancing your strings will make it somewhat easier to boink with, but it causes many of the problems these other pricey "solutions" purport to correct.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I have one on my Strat that I use for alternative tunings and as a backup guitar.  I have it tuned to D normally and will capo it up to play in Eb or E, sometimes tune it for Drop D, etc.  The Tremol no works great for that imo.  I use a rubber band twisted into an X pattern around the set screws to keep them from falling out when they are loose.  That said if I wasn't in a situation where I wanted to use alternative tunings with different string tensions, etc with a floating tremolo then I wouldn't bother with it.  My primary Strat does not have one for example.

 

[Strat Avenger]

'Too bad the Ibanez system is not available for the after market.
It has counter-tension springs and always returns to zero pitch.
I'm not gonna buy an Ibanez guitar just to get one though.

 

[LushTone]

Ok, thanks for all the feedback! ccasion14:


My main concern of my floating Hipshot bridge is that I won't be able to tune the low E down to D without issues. But I was told by my coworker that it will work fine..

Do you guys agree about drop D not having tuning issues with a floating trem and locking tuners?

 

[Cagey]

A floating bridge is balancing the pull of the strings against the pull of the springs. If you change any tension by retuning or breaking a string, you change all the tensions because it goes out of balance. In the case of dropping your low E to a D, the springs are going to pull the other 5 strings slightly sharp.

If you're playing live and you want a floating vibrato bridge, often the best solution is to use more than one guitar. Unless, of course, you can afford the time to retune repeatedly.,

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

As cagey said you'll have to retune all of the strings because of the spring balance issue.  That's exactly why I put the tremol no on the guitar I use for alternative tunings.  When I do that I can lock the bridge and not have to worry about those tuning issues.  I do lose the use of the tremolo at those times but it's worth it.  That's not to say you can't do it but it will require retuning of all of your strings.  I wanted to be able to play alternative tunings easily. 

 

[Strat Avenger]

I'll never understand why so many guitar players insist on a floating bridge. I can't stand them and have no use for them.
Unless you play like Vai or Satriani (and I know there are some who can, but most can't and never will), I really don't see the need for the ability to pull sharp on all 6 strings. EVH never needed (or wanted) a Floyd that floats, and he makes some of the most outrageous "noises" ever heard on electric guitar.

I would much rather have the tuning stability of a "dive only" bridge (but I like them recessed). I can bend individual notes up with my fingers, and I have no need to bend multiple notes up simultaneously.

I'm into hard-tails lately, but the 3 Floyds that I have are all set up to dive only.

 

[stratamania]

If you have your Floyds set up for dive only and don't need to pull up, an easy way to do drop D is to get a D-Tuna and fit it.

Floating tremolos I like as I do sometimes play Vai and Satriani type stuff, and the ability to play harmonics and be able to use the tremolo to play melodies by going up and down in pitch a bit like a trombone player is fun. Other than that I prefer the feel of a floating tremolo.  Personal choice at the end of the day.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I have it on 2 guitars and I swear by them.
I leave it locked in hard tail when in the case, or when doing any rythym tracks that have no bar use whatsoever.
Otherwise, when it's in freely floating mode, I don't know it's there.
It's nice to be able to lock it into Dive Only mode or Hard Tail for Dropped D tuning.
This enables me to use one guitar for multiple applications with minimal adjustment.

 

[LushTone]

Ok thanks guys, it definitely sounds like something worth trying. I'm gonna make do without for now, but I'll make the transition when I get frustrated with retuning.  :laughing7:

 

[stubhead]

In review, I realized my meaning may have run a bit amuck - I'm not saying DON'T use one, just that it is much, much easier to put it on after you have all the other parameters of tuning and action set up fairly close to your "ideal." They're just kind of... finicky, and I'm a firm believer that you need to get rockin' on the newbie for a while and pull all the details tight in the course of mashing & banging some tunes... 'tis a far, far better test of set-upiness than a mere caliper quickie.

I know that one of the main reasons I don't like working on other people's guitars much is because, like I said, MY guitars are never actually, really finished. And even though putting a half-hour into basic string height & intonation issues can often kick a store-set-up guitar into relative kickassedness, NO GUITAR IS EVER PERFECTLY SET-UP. There is always "just a little bit better" lurking around the corner. For some reason though, when somebody hands you a guitar and a chunk o' money, they seem to have this idea that they should get the guitar back, too! Jerks.

And yes, drop-D only works with it locked, or if it's set for no uppies. Which is one I don't understand, because for me the main point of the springiness is it's more, kind of like....

IT'S ALIVE!
eee! eee! eee! etc.

It just feels kind of alive & weird, and... dangerous. There's a whole huge body of work on vibrato, pages and pages of classical violin exercises, and the Indians go ridiculously deep on this... they're getting homogenized now, but a real Indian musician can still listen to another's recording and tell you what village he came from, by his use  of "meends."

The fretted guitar is actually sort of a low-rent vibratoer, given that just about EVERY other instrument (no I never heard of a piano) is capable of playing a correct vibrato, one that goes a little bit above then a little bit below the target note. Or another style where the played note goes up to the center of the note, down a bit, back up but only to the note, not above it.

Supposedly, classical guitarists have a way of pushing and pulling the string the long way - not side to side, but the long way and this gives them "correct" vibrato above and below the center note - I've read about it, and heard them talk about it, but it must be subtle as all get-out, because it doesn't actually... work. So we electrified folks have just gotten our ears trained to the idea that guitars are always playing sharp and that's good enough. I spent many years completely whammyless, for the simple reason that it almost ALWAYS sounds like crap to me. Whenever Hendrix or SRV grabbed it, their playing went to pieces. Adrian Belew did some of his elephant noises with it, which sounded cool for about the first five seconds... but with one exception, the whammy falls into the same bin as the wah-wah pedal, that is, as soon as you start using it, you sound like a million other people all doing the same thing. The exception, of course, is the one-and-only person to play real live MUSIC on one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM9IFk73tac
I can listen to this song 12 times in a row.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sQde68Z-zw
Might as well just bag 'er up and set it on the curb.

 

[stratamania]

Stubhead, fully agree Jeff Beck is the master of the bar. Check out the tune Two Rivers also if you haven't heard it. It has those melodies played with harmonics and the bar.

 

[migetkotla]

I have two used on two Warmoth builds both strats have Floyd Rose bridges.........and I also use locking nuts.  I'm not a big whammy bar guy and usually use Tek2 hardtail bridges.....but wanted to have at least a couple strats that had the bar for others who want/need them so went with the Tremol-no and the rest and feedback is all good. 

Personally, I prefer hardtails and using my left hand if I want vibrato....not as dramatic but seems okay.