Thinking of doing my first build...need advice.

[motorhead9999]

As the title states, I'm thinking of doing a guitar build. I don't really know how to play much (more of a keyboardist, but I dabble), but as an engineer, I think it'll be a fun project, with potentially giving me an urge to formally learn.

Anyhow, I've chosen to simply do a build rather than start from bare material (I'm handy, but I don't think that handy). I've watched a few assembly videos, and I think I'm at the point where I need advice, as I'm not that "in the know" about the accessories to buy, and I can't buy my body until I know. I am very unfamiliar with the specifics of guitar components, so this is where I'm starting to get lost.

I do have a PRS Mikael Akerfeldt guitar, so I would want something different from that. I would like to do a strat style one on this.

I'm going to go with a Warmoth body. I've already got that speced out in terms of what I want aesthetically.

Everything from there is up in the air. I've had random thoughts about making this a seven string, but quick question on that.
-If its a six vs 7 string, does that make any different in the body that I buy?

As for the neck, I'm not sure whether to get a Warmoth neck or not. I tend to hear mixed things about them. If I go 6 string, I'm tempted to just get a Fender neck off of ebay, but obviously my options open up more if I do a 7 string (as fender doesn't make them). What should I look for in a neck, or what options should I consider?

I guess the major choices I need to make are:
Neck (discussed above)
Pickups (I'm leaning towards 3 single coil pickups, just like a strat. Other than that, not a whole lot of direction as to what type of pickups would suit me)
Tremolo (The video I watched that really made me feel I can do this project used a Super Vee Blade Runner...but I seem to see that most people say just go floyd rose).

It seems that the little hardware issues come down more to preference/aesthetics (i.e. connector plates, pots etc).

Am I missing anything? Again, this is pretty virgin territory for me, so feel free to correct and educate a newbie!

Also, in terms of my musical preferences (perhaps to help guide you), I'm big into stuff like Rush, Dream Theater, David Gilmour/Pink Floyd, but do have a bit of a jazz side to me.

 

[tangent]

Honestly I would probably wait until you have more experience under your belt to do a custom build. 

The whole point of a custom build IMO is to make a guitar which suits your individual preferences.. it sounds like you have not played enough different guitars to know what you like and don't like, so that kind of defeats the purpose.

Also, if you really want to learn to play guitar, doing a custom build is not a good way to go about it.. since it will suck up a lot of your time and require a lot of learning in order to get a decent result.  A warmoth build can be better than the most expensive 'custom shop' guitars, or worse than a cheap asian factory guitar, all depends on the skill and experience of the builder (hence why you have heard mixed reviews about warmoth necks.. those who review them unfavorably don't know what they are doing therefore they get a poor result)

 

[DavyDave53]

Or you could do a very simple build...

Pick out a Warmoth neck and buy a loaded body on eBay.  Throw in a set of tuners that require no drilling and you're set.

 

[stratamania]

A couple of things. A seven string neck is wider than a six string neck, therefore buying a six string body with the idea of putting a seven string neck on won't work. You could of course resize the neck pocket to get the neck to fit but then the pickups and bridge will be for a six string so it's still not going to work. And scale length is often different between them.


If you buy a neck off e bay from a parted out Fender, which one do you go for... There are lots of different profiles, maple versus rosewood, different types of tuner holes for vintage or modern etc.

You could go and try some guitars to see which features you like and which you don't. Or go and buy a Squier, and take it apart to swap out parts etc over time.

Even those of us who have many years experience playing different guitars have choices to make when doing a build from parts. And a lot of compromises because no one guitar can fit all of the features on we may like.

 

[Kostas]

You should know what you want before you make a parts guitar. A custom guitar is all about you, if you decide to sell you will lose money.

Visit guitar stores and play many guitars with 6, 7 and 8 strings. With thin & thick neck profiles, with lock tremolos and non locking tremolos, with no tremolos at all. With different type of pickups.

How many strings the guitar will have is crucial, you should decide that before you order any part. If you are not a guitarist I can't see the reason of going for more than 6 strings but this is your decision.

The Floyd Rose is a locking tremolo and it's not for everyone. I sold an expensive guitar because I couldn't stand it and also didn't need it. How much you are using the tremolo in your PRS and for what? For simple use a non locking tremolo would be more appropriate. For heavy use a FR is the way to go. If you don't use the tremolo you can save money and go for a hardtail. It will also make your life easier as you won't need to set it up in the future.

Neck: If you like the neck profile in your PRS the '59 is the closest to yous. I have a guitar with a '59 and a PRS SE so I know from experience. The '59 is a bit thicker in the end but nothing most people can't handle. The radius in most PRS is 10'' straight. Your guitar has jumbo frets so try 6105 or 6150 frets, SS are recommended because they last longer. Also read the truss rod differences in the site. Woods are personal choice, Warmoth has many to choose. Read the descriptions and check the prices.

Body: The strat is the most versatile guitar. You can specify HSH OR HHH routing and still use three single coils. If you change your mind in the future order another pickguard and put different pickups. A contoured heel makes life easier in the last frets.

Finish: Decide before your order who will finish the guitar, especially the body. If you do it yourself you will save money but it's not easy and you should have a place to do it. There are different finishing options like nitro, poly, acrylic, oils, milk paint etc. They have different costs, some are easier and others more difficult to apply. If you want to D.I.Y. start from a piece of wood, not from your guitar body. If you pay someone else to do it for you Warmoth has competitive prices, most people who finish guitars will ask you more for a finish of the same level. It's up to you and how much you want to spend.

I would order both body & neck from Warmoth, Fender does not have options or the same quality. It's better to wait and order piece by piece than skip in quality. On the other hand the showcase has hundrend bodies & necks, you can buy at least one of them from showcase and save money.

If you don't understand the meaning of some terms read the Warmoth site first. They explain everything with text & photos.

Welcome.

 

[Ddbltrbl]

Warning: The Surgeon General has determined that this can be highly addictive!  :icon_biggrin:

Welcome! First, I would recommend waiting until you are really sure what you want to build, because even though you can build a super fine custom guitar this way for much less than you can purchase one from a dealer, you will probably never be able to sell it for as much as you spend on it. So, better to be sure it is something you will really like!

I would also recommend you read through a lot of the builds here and see what others have done and the issues they have run into. There is a wealth of good, deeply educational info here. And as others have already advised, go play a number of different guitars to see what you really like.

Necks: I think tangent's explanation for the mixed reviews is probably spot on. Either way, you will find a number of us on this forum are very partial to raw wood necks. Besides the beauty of the exotic woods used, they are a dream to play; smooth and silky, with none of the stickiness of finished necks! I also think you will find a majority of us tend to like fatter profile necks, but I could be wrong there. I tried them first after seeing a lot of praise for them in this forum and have become a big fan. The best 5 necks I've every played were all Warmoth!

Bridge: As with almost everything else, this depends some on what you want to do with the guitar. Do you really need a tremolo? Many great guitarist don't use them! Floyds gained an almost mythological nature some years ago when they were the first tremolo that would stay in tune. However, they can also be a big pain in the rear. There are some great new designs that I feel are simpler, cheaper, and every bit as effective (translated: better). I own many different bridges including Floyds, but I believe you find many of us on this board believe that the Wilkinson tremolo in combination with locking tuners is every bit as good, is simpler to use and is definitely cheaper.

Pickups: Again, depends on what you want to do with the guitar. What will you be playing? Blues? Jazz? Rockabilly?

Once you are clearer on "what" you want to do with the guitar there are many very knowledgeable people here that can help you decide "how" to do it.

And, my last piece of advice would be to patiently watch what shows up in the Warmoth Showcase! I built my first parts guitar from things I found on the showcase and it is still one of my favorite guitars!
:guitarplayer2:

 

[Dan025]

7 strings have a wider neck pocket so yes that's a consideration for the body. a six string might be possible to route for a 7 neck. i don't know if warmoth would do it but it should be possible for a luthier to do. the 7 string scale length options aren't too popular from warmoth. the 25in might make the low string feel slightly sloppy and the baritone might need detuning. maybe not quite to a baritone level if that's not what you want but maybe a step down, depending on what you want to play that may not be bad. it could be weird playing 6-strings covers but much 7 string material is detuned to begin with and if you want to do original stuff or transcriptions from keyboard it may still work for you. but if you are doing a wide range of covers then maybe a 25in scale is best.

you still have a lot of decisions to make about hardware before you order parts. floyds are very nice if they are high quality but soft potmetal/zinc versions aren't worth their weight in, well.... potmetal. also many people don't like the double locking setups when it comes to changing strings. if you want to do dive bombs there is no replacement for a floyd but it all depends on your style.

you might want to buy an ibanez 7 string with a double locking trem like a floyd and get some time in on it before you decide that's what you wnat in a custom guitar. you could build a beautiful guitar but if you decide there are things that you would change later it could just become wall art.

 

[motorhead9999]

Thanks for the advice all:

After I read that there is a difference, I decided to stick with a 6 string for now. Bodywise, there's a body on Warmoth Showcase that I'm kind of in love with, so I don't have to worry about staining/painting anything at all. I hadn't had any plans to use a pickguard (I kind of like the body that much that I think it should be all exposed  :icon_biggrin Again, hence why there's a bit of urgency in picking stuff out. So that it's mine  :icon_biggrin:

Can you buy a body from Warmoth and either have it not routed, or have it routed later on, or have them have it on hold for you by putting a deposit?

I do want the tremolo, but its more a case of not exactly knowing what the advantages/disadvantages are. I did watch a Floyd Rose tutorial after I posted, and can see how it's a bit of a pain to restring, or change tunings (not that I really plan on doing that THAT much mind you). I'm not locked into a Floyd Rose mind you. Just that I've seen some things posted elsewhere that have sung about it. YMMV, I know.

As for what I'd be playing with the guitar, I guess you could say it'd be some sort of mixture of Prog  type stuff (think Dream Theater/Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree/Rush/Neil Morse), Pink Floyd and Rush style classic rock, and a bit of jazz in the background. Not all at once of course, but that's the type of stuff I like. I'm a huge fan of Gilmour's lead sound (especially in Comfortably Numb)

 

[Cagey]

Warmoth's policy is either buy it or don't. There's no "holding" or "layaway" or "deposits" or anything like that. But, there are a couple things you can do to mitigate uncertainty. First, Warmoth can cut what they call a "universal pickup route" which essentially creates what some call a "swimming pool" route or a "tone chamber".

In other words, the area under the pickguard is pretty wide open, so you can install just about any pickup combination/type you want for starters, and if you want to change it later it's a simple matter of getting another pickguard. This also allows you to change the number and position of controls such as volume, tone, pickup switches, etc. I know you said you don't necessarily want a pickguard, but in your case the utility may be too much to ignore. Besides, we're talking Strat. Strats usually have pickguards. Unless you're buying into a highly figured top that you don't want to cover, a pickguard is a Good Thing. Plus, even if you do have a fancy top, the lack of a guard means your pick and fingernails will destroy it.

As for bridge choice, if you want to have vibrato capabilities, the vast majority of them out there now follow the Wilkinson design. The Floyd Rose design is iconic, but using one is largely an emotional/aesthetic choice. From a practical point of view, they're expensive and complicated with little to show for it other than they do accomplish their base task of being a vibrato bridge that will more or less stay in tune. But, you can accomplish the same thing with the Wilkinson design coupled with locking tuners for less cost and aggravation, so... wtf? The Wilkinson design is what everybody copies, from Fender to PRS and all points in between. Even the cheapo Fender shown above is based on the Wilkie.

 

[stubhead]

You will find many opinions on guitar boards; many, many many, usually having to do with what's sitting in the poster's lap right now! Besides the usual (good) advice to try as many guitars as possible and define (sort-of) what you want a guitar to do, you might want to subscribe to "Premier Guitar", which is head-and-shoulders above the rest of the guitar rags. If you periodically just ask yourself "What am I doing? What do I want?" You will stave off some of the impulse buying ~ hopefully. :laughing11:

What I consider mandatory reading (and ownership!) is Dan Erlewine's "Guitar Player's Repair Guide." $24, and it can/will save you thousands over the years, at the very least you'll be able to "talk guitar" with a tech guy or manufacturer with some element of understanding.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Guitar-Player-Repair-Guide/dp/0879309210

And here I say something to get the townsfolks revv'ed up, pitchforks 'n' torches, warm up the tar and defenestrate* some chickens:

Most equipment is designed to get a perfectly AVERAGE tone, working together with most other equipment to get  a tone that is not too trebly, not too bassy, an ordinary amount of mid-range, enough distortion 'n'  overdrive to pretty much sound like everybody else.

What this actually means is that you can run a real "bright" guitar through a "dark" kind of rig (my preference) or run a bassy guitar through a bright rig, and get both into a similar final range of tone. But you can't lose too much treble, i.e. So everything is related, and (mostly) compensatable. So if you HAVE to have a certain pickup, it can be jiggered around with different wiring.

Whoa! Looky here... fingers?!? Uh-oh... sounds like more work!
Yes, fingers. Uh-oh... sounds like work!

As an engineer you'll be able to grasp most things quickly, but "thinking small" is a mindset you have to visit at certain times. Like in setups, there is a huge difference between .005" and .015" for the nut clearance and bow in the neck.


*(I know, but it's such a great word... :laughing7

 

[Kostas]

...But, you can accomplish the same thing with the Wilkinson design coupled with locking tuners for less cost and aggravation, so... wtf? The Wilkinson design is what everybody copies, from Fender to PRS and all points in between. Even the cheapo Fender shown above is based on the Wilkie.

It's one thing to have a personal opinion and a completely different thing to say inaccurate things. Paul Reed Smith started making guitars in the late 70's. As far as I know he was the first to combine a quality non locking tremolo (MIL Com in the beginning, Mann Made later) with locking tuners and also the first to realize how important the nut is for tuning stability. Fender put locking tuners and their two post tremolo in their Plus & Ultra strats in the late 80's. They also realized the importance of the nut and they tried to improve tuning stability with the Wilkinson nut first and a few years later with the LSR roller nut. To my knowledge none of them copied Trev Wilkinsons tremolo design, if you have proof about it you can post it.

Wilkinson tremolos were big in the last decade but there are more designs nowdays, they are not the best tremolos and they can't replace a Floyd Rose if someone wants to use the tremolo heavily. I had a FR and I have a Wilkinson, two different tremolos for different use.

 

[Cagey]

...But, you can accomplish the same thing with the Wilkinson design coupled with locking tuners for less cost and aggravation, so... wtf? The Wilkinson design is what everybody copies, from Fender to PRS and all points in between. Even the cheapo Fender shown above is based on the Wilkie.

It's one thing to have a personal opinion and a completely different thing to say inaccurate things.

You're absolutely right. But, PRS guitars was founded in 1985, not in the '70s. Mr. Smith was still in high school in the first half of the '70s. Plus, locking tuners didn't come along until the early 80s, which is why Floyd used a locking nut; his design came out in 1980. The lack of locking tuners predicated the use of the locking nut for stability. Wilkinson's design came a couple years after that and took advantage of the new tuners to eliminate the need for the locking nut and the microtuners at the bridge. He kept the idea of the two-point fulcrum, which was key to the repeatability of the unit, and also allowed for saddle height adjustment. Of course the nut is important as well, which is why we're all thankful for LSRs and Graphtech, but more importantly, for the internet which encouraged the proliferation of information on how to cut nuts so they work properly.

Today, of course PRS vibrato bridges use the 2 point fulcrum, adjustable saddles and locking tuners; nothing else makes good sense. I don't know who makes them. But, aside from aesthetic differences, his bridge is the Wilkie, as is Fender's, Gotoh's, Schaller's and many others. Really, when you get right down to it, Mr. Rose deserves the real credit as his two-point fulcrum was the critical improvement, but he's never backed off his original design so you're still stuck with an overly complex part with high manufacturing/resale costs as well as maintenance difficulties.

 

[stubhead]

the vast majority of them out there now follow the Wilkinson design. The Floyd Rose design is iconic, but using one is largely an emotional/aesthetic choice. From a practical point of view, they're expensive and complicated with little to show for it other than they do accomplish their base task of being a vibrato bridge that will more or less stay in tune. But, you can accomplish the same thing with the Wilkinson design coupled with locking tuners for less cost and aggravation, so... wtf? The Wilkinson design is what everybody copies, from Fender to PRS and all points in between. Even the cheapo Fender shown above is based on the Wilkie.

Yup, I was just about to leap on the Cage and poke sticks in it too. My understanding of it had to do with the Fender American Standard having a very willing guinea pig by the name of Jeff Beck, in that intermediate period 1985 - >1989 where John Page and Michael Stevens were starting the Custom Shop and re-aligning Fender's mission. Bill Lawrence was kicking around there designing the pickups and switching circuits - (the "S-1" switching that re-combines different coils was such a circuit. A blatant ripoff of Gibson's L6 switching :evil4: - except, Lawrence designed that one too!) :laughing3: :laughing7: :toothy12:

The Floyd was the first two-point pivoter that I was aware of, but an awful lot of people had to have looked at the thing and said:

A) "Ooog. Two point pivoter - good!"
B) "Ughhh. Gimcracky million parts - bad!"

Somewhere in the early-to-mid 1980's a buncha goozballs were bounding about, for sure.

 

[Cagey]

The Fender AmStd bridge was later, after the Floyd and Wilkie put paid to how to pivot the thing reliably.

 

[Kostas]

The Fender AmStd bridge was later, after the Floyd and Wilkie put paid to how to pivot the thing reliably.

Which Wilkinson model you are referring to? I don't remember a Wilkinson tremolo in the 80's, only the Wilkinson nut.

 

[Cagey]

I don't remember. Hell, I don't know what model I'm using now. VS100? Like the Floyds, I'm not sure they've changed much over the years.

 

[stratamania]

The earliest reference I could find on Wilkinson VS100 was a usenet review from 1993.

http://www.jt30.com/usenet-articles/guitars/vs100-review/

I know for sure Floyd Rose was about in the eighties as I bought a Hamer in 1985 equipped with one. It arrived in London from Chicago, and was still in tune. 

Still with all this progress with tremelo technology, what happens is a vintage relic market is created making sales of six screw synchronised things continue.  I jest here somewhat of course.

Back to the OP, I have a Supervee Bladerunner that I used to replace the six screw thing on a Fender Strat, this on its own does not guarantee Floyd rose like tuning stability but is an improvement. The nut also has to be correct, ideally also look at string trees or removing them. Nut Sauce from big bends is also very good. The Supervee has a stiffer feel to it in operation compared to some other tremolos.

I am not sure I would use a Supervee on a new build, I would use either a Gotoh 510 type tremolo with the steel block as I am on my current build, a Wilkinson, or a Floyd Rose type. But as with all things mojo wise there isn't a right or wrong it's down to choice, preference and all that good stuff.

 

[Kostas]

The earliest reference I could find on Wilkinson VS100 was a usenet review from 1993.

http://www.jt30.com/usenet-articles/guitars/vs100-review/

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...I would use either a Gotoh 510 type tremolo with the steel block as I am on my current build, a Wilkinson, or a Floyd Rose type...

That's what I also think. I don't remember Wilkinson having a tremolo in the 80's or his designs inspiring PRS or others.
Floyd Rose did not backed up his original design so Paul Reed Smith was the first to put in his guitars a proper non locking tremolo, a proper designed & cut nut and locking tuners.

I agree about the Gotoh 510, they are my tremolo of choice since Gotoh introduced them. They look close to the vintage tremolos but they are improved and very well made as every Gotoh product. I'm referring to the 2 post models that give the choice of saddles & block. On the other hand Trev Wilkinson has licensed many people to build his designs. Mine is Gotoh made but I bought it back in 2007. Now I see Asian Wilkinson products from $20, I would not bet on their quality.

 

[motorhead9999]

So after listening to some samples on Seymour Duncan's site, I really liked the SLSD-1 (Screamin' Demon) in the bridge position. Can anyone recommend another middle and neck single coil pickup that would compliment this well?

 

[Ddbltrbl]

I guess it all depends on what sounds you are wanting, but I have a guitar setup with a Screamin Demon bridge, a Duckbuster middle, and a Lil 59 neck and really like it.