Talk to me about Charlie Christian pickups...

[bbl4ck]

O.K., I have two tele's in the works. 
One is a La Cabronita that I have all planned to perfection. 
The second is going to be a carved top, but I keep having this internal struggle about pickups for this second build.
I think that I have finally decided to try some Charlie Christians...

This is where the questions begin.  I have seen a lot of Charlie Christian pickups out there and need to find out the differences in them all.
I have seen them made by Lollar, Seymour Duncan, Vintage Vibe, CC, and Stephens Design.

I have listened to the clips for the Lollars and they sound really sweet.  I have Lollar P-90's and love them, so it would not take much to convince me to go with the Lollars.
They combine the CC neck with their B.S. tele bridge and it seems like a nice combination.

I have seen the Charlie Christians on the Seymour Duncan website and they usually have soundclips for their pickups, but I cannot find them for the CC.
I keep reading posts about the SD CC soundclips, but they are nowhere to be found.  Anybody have a link?
I am interested in the SD's because they have a humbucker CC that would be interesting.   

I have also read good reviews on the Vintage Vibe CC's, but again cannot find any clips.
Same goes for the CC and Stephens Design pickups. 

Also, I keep reading about special routing for these pickups and they do seem to be a rather odd shape.
The Lollar website gives instructions for mounting to a pickguard, but I want to mount direct to the body.
Does anyone know if Warmoth will route for the Charlie Christians???

Thanks for your time and any tips you might be able to provide...
Cheers to you &  :rock-on:

 

[kboman]

I think if you want real "vintage spec" mounted CC pickups, the cavity is pretty big. The VV CCs look like they come with regular mounting, the SDs can be both apparently. Dunno how accommodating W will be though...

 

[Jusatele]

each pickup manufacturer is in a race to develop a pickup that sounds like a popular pickup, they experiment with magnets length, strength and allloy, and the positioning of them, they do wind studies counting wraps, trying gauges, tension, potted or not potted etc, base material, bobbin material, and such all combine to the tone of a pickup, even how fast the wind travel from side to side. They are looking for several different reading and magnetic properties to get the sound. Then they put it out and claim they have the best out there.
what it will sound like in your guitar depends on a lot of stuff besides the PU, woods, pots, capacitors, string gauge and alloy, bridge etc all have affect on the PU final sound.
So now you want to figure out if this Manufacturer is better than that.
Advice, get the best you can afford as long as you are not paying a premium for brand name. There are a lot of guys out there turning out great pickups and some want a premium for their name, so choose wisely.

 

[OzziePete]

As you probably know having done that research, the original Charlie Christian pickups were big pickups that had the magnets underneath the top of the body & parallel to the top, held into place by 3 screws back from the pickup. They were orginally fitted into large archtop acoustics & used the available space inside the body of those guitars. But that means a huge rout has to be done if you want to put one of those into a solid body (see John Lennon's LP Junior), probably about the size of the usual trem rout that Warmoth does..

The variants are trying to utlise a more standard modern day mounting set up, sometimes using same gauge wire for the coils and same magnets (but maybe smaller to fit the modern pickup casings).

I'd argue that any changes to the original design will change the way the pickup transfers the sound off the strings (ie: sound different).

 

[Jusatele]

As you probably know having done that research, the original Charlie Christian pickups were big pickups that had the magnets underneath the top of the body & parallel to the top, held into place by 3 screws back from the pickup. They were orginally fitted into large archtop acoustics & used the available space inside the body of those guitars. But that means a huge rout has to be done if you want to put one of those into a solid body (see John Lennon's LP Junior), probably about the size of the usual trem rout that Warmoth does..

The variants are trying to utlise a more standard modern day mounting set up, sometimes using same gauge wire for the coils and same magnets (but maybe smaller to fit the modern pickup casings).

I'd argue that any changes to the original design will change the way the pickup transfers the sound off the strings (ie: sound different).

times 2

 

[bbl4ck]

As you probably know having done that research, the original Charlie Christian pickups were big pickups that had the magnets underneath the top of the body & parallel to the top, held into place by 3 screws back from the pickup. They were orginally fitted into large archtop acoustics & used the available space inside the body of those guitars. But that means a huge rout has to be done if you want to put one of those into a solid body (see John Lennon's LP Junior), probably about the size of the usual trem rout that Warmoth does..

The variants are trying to utlise a more standard modern day mounting set up, sometimes using same gauge wire for the coils and same magnets (but maybe smaller to fit the modern pickup casings).

I'd argue that any changes to the original design will change the way the pickup transfers the sound off the strings (ie: sound different).

times 2

I totally agree with what you are saying!  I have no hopes have having an exact duplication of the original pickup and/or sound.
I am just trying to get some feedback on the attempted copies that are currently available.
The only faux Charlie Christian pickup that I can find a sound clip of is the Lollar. 
I do like the sound of the Lollars; just trying to explore all options available...
:rock-on:

 

[Jusatele]

be sure he uses a condom when Lollar Fu..... er..... charges you for his pickups

 

[OzziePete]

I'm loathe to link another forum on this site, but the info offered in this Thread from another forum about Charlie Christian pickups has some good advice about what constitutes the CC pickup. Large gauge wire, huge magnets with low gauss, lots of primitive features about the design that makes it prone to breakages... BUT a sound that is very mellow and not at all as harsh as some P90s can be.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pickups/34796-what-makes-charlie-christian-pickup-charlie-christian-pickup.html

 

[bbl4ck]

I'm loathe to link another forum on this site, but the info offered in this Thread from another forum about Charlie Christian pickups has some good advice about what constitutes the CC pickup. Large gauge wire, huge magnets with low gauss, lots of primitive features about the design that makes it prone to breakages... BUT a sound that is very mellow and not at all as harsh as some P90s can be.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pickups/34796-what-makes-charlie-christian-pickup-charlie-christian-pickup.html

Hey OP,

Thanks for that link.  It has lots of detailed info about the CC Pickups.  I think I might give Pete at Vintage Vibe a call. 
He seems to offer several different options and will do custom orders to come as close as possible to the original within the constraints of typical routing sizes. 
Thanks again  ccasion14:

 

[-CB-]

I think you'll find the best "copy" of the Charlie Christian is from Duncan's Custom Shop.  Those are one off pickups, but the price isn't "too dear".