sustain balance

[disaster]

HI,

  I have a new Epi SG that I've been playing for a few weeks now & I'm becoming familiar with it's personality.  It plays very well but I'm trying to figure out the tone.  It has massive sustain on the lower frequency strings.  Too much I'm afraid.  The Low E (Std tuning) will sustain for roughly 20 seconds.  The high frequency strings don't sustain nearly as well.  The High E string will sustain for under 4 seconds.  This creates quite an imbalance in the sound.  This isn't limited to the pickups.  This sustain measurement is un-amplified - just the bare bones guitar.  The pluck "attack" is moderate & the same on both strings.  It has the "new" LockTone Tune-O-Matic bridge & stop bar (very significant improvement over the previous generations, virtually buzz free).

So I'm trying to figure out how to better balance the sustain.  I don't think there's any way to increase the high frequency sustain.  I believe it's being damped by the instrument (mahagony body mostly I suspect).  So I'm looking for ways to reduce the low frequency sustain.  This should prevent the dominance of the low frequency spectrum providing a more balanced sound & tone.

Any suggestions on how to reduce the sustain of low frequency strings only?  I've adjusted pick-up heights & bridge & stop bar heights in an attempt to balance things without any success.  I'm also going to try experimenting with string types to see if they have any impact.  I'm just playing boring ol' nickel plated steel for now.  I'm also wondering if the GraphTech nylon saddles will dampen sustain.

Thanks.

 

[drewfx]

Changing string gauges/types will probably have the biggest impact: tighter strings = more sustain. Use at least 10's or 11's on top.

If you're using light gauge strings and the pickup is too close to the string, the PU's magnet may be dampening the string as well.

 

[dNA]

If you're using light gauge strings and the pickup is too close to the string, the PU's magnet may be dampening the string as well.

this would be my first suggestion too

 

[tfarny]

If an open high E is sustaining for only a few seconds, you either have a bad nut slot (too wide or too low), something funky at your bridge, or your pickups are too close at the treble side. Listen very closely (put your ear to the fretboard) for buzzing or pinging sounds coming from the nut / 1st fret area. If you do get a pure tone, then try lowering the pickups, especially the neck pickup. Lower it way down out of the way and see what happens to your sustain.
If what you really want to do is lessen the sustain from your bass strings (really?), stick a piece of foam or cotton just in front of the bridge so it touches the bass strings.

 

[dbw]

I agree with Tim, what you want to do is fix whatever's killing the sustain on the high strings.  If the pickup is too close to the strings that can kill sustain too.

 

[disaster]

Thanks for the ideas.  I'm puzzling with ways to dampen the lower frequency strings.  Nylon or StringSaver saddle experiments I suppose.  Maybe just shrink tubing around the lower 3 strings at the bridge saddle.

I'm playing 10 - 46s, just boring ol' nickel plated steel strings.  Same strings I've been using for years.  I don't want to go to heavier strings but I guess I could experiment with lighter wound/heavier un-wound string combos.  I haven't looked at what "custom" gauge sets are available, but I can give it a go.

I don't know of any particular problems with the nut or the bridge.  I'll try & pay closer attention & look for issues.  I can drop the pickups further & see if it frees up the higher frequencies any.

I also read that the LockTone bridge does increase sustain.  But the claim is that the higher frequency sustain didn't increase nearly as much as the lower frequency.  Much like the situation I'm experiencing...... So another thought is to try a non-locking Tune-O-Matic bridge & see what impact it has.  I prefer the buzz free lock-tone but I may have to compromise.

Thanks again.

 

[bendeg]

I heard that like a player gets used to his axe, the other way round is true as well : your guitar, after many weeks (well, months), will sound the way you play it and will tend to stay like this.
If you want more sustain in high notes, play high notes more often and the wood will get that "signature", and will give you back better high notes...

I'm probably wrong, I'm really not sure about what I say but it's a classical guitar player who told me that...

 

[dbw]

If you want more sustain in high notes, play high notes more often and the wood will get that "signature", and will give you back better high notes...

Hmm... I have a feeling your classical guitarist friend is the kind of guy who pounds the side of his monitor when his computer runs slow.

 

[bendeg]

If you want more sustain in high notes, play high notes more often and the wood will get that "signature", and will give you back better high notes...

Hmm... I have a feeling your classical guitarist friend is the kind of guy who pounds the side of his monitor when his computer runs slow.

LOL ! Maybe...I forgot to mention that it is for a new guitar (fresh wood). The woods get "stressed" by the vibrations and get the vibrations signature over time...Nobody heard that before ? It's a bit like brand new car engines, drive slow all the time and you'll get a "papy" car...

 

[Dan025]

If you want more sustain in high notes, play high notes more often and the wood will get that "signature", and will give you back better high notes...

Hmm... I have a feeling your classical guitarist friend is the kind of guy who pounds the side of his monitor when his computer runs slow.

LOL ! Maybe...I forgot to mention that it is for a new guitar (fresh wood). The woods get "stressed" by the vibrations and get the vibrations signature over time...Nobody heard that before ? It's a bit like brand new car engines, drive slow all the time and you'll get a "papy" car...

only if your spark plugs foul... get real, but as far as playing high notes on the guitar making it sustain better at high notes i kinda doubt it to put it politely.

 

[drewfx]

Well there is apparently something to the impact of (constant) vibrations on the structure of wood, based on a university-type book I read online after one of these discussions in another forum.

The book dealt with acoustical properties of wood used in pianos/violins/etc., and there was a scientific discussion of vibrations "improving" the sound of instruments (as well as aging, moisture, finish and other factors). However, my limited understanding of the rather difficult read (!!!, see excerpt below), was that this might apply much more to hollow instruments with a vibrating top than solid-body instruments, which I don't believe were ever really explicitly discussed.

FWIW the book was called "Acoustics of Wood" by Voichita Bucur. The original link I had is no longer good, but I'm sure you could find it if you're willing to read this kind of stuff. Here is a short excerpt from the PDF I downloaded (it goes on like this for several pages) :tard::

"Sobue and Okayasu (1992) studied the effect of continuous small amplitude
vibrations on Young’s modulus and internal friction (tan 􀁇) in different species
(softwoods and hardwoods). The free−free flexural vibration with small amplitude
(from 0.015−0.40 mm) and frequency (100−170 Hz) was applied for 5 h.
Young's modulus EL was not affected by the vibrational regime; rather the internal
friction parameter tan 􀁇L decreased from 5 to 15%. This behavior is related
to the modification of the normal alignment of cellulose chain molecules. The
hydrogen bonds were broken under the continuous vibration, and this phenomenon
is reflected by the diminishing of tan 􀁇. By applying reaction rate process
theory to the formation and rupture of the hydrogen bond, a relationship of tan 􀁇
versus time was derived and it was noted that this is in good agreement with the
experimental data."  from "Acoustics of Wood" by Voichita Bucur, p.203

 

[erogenousjones17]

I think it's an interesting concept, though it seeems a little overly romanticized for my taste. I have found that new guitars take a little while to "break in" (like a baseball glove), but as to them adapting to their owner's playing style over the years...well I'm not so sure.

And the car thing? I'm with Dan on that one.

 

[Dan025]

i believe that playing the guitar will change the sound over time do to fatigue on the wood, if it were metal that'd be crazy not too crazy but not really a big concern, but i have a problem with the idea that it will happen in such a predictable way that you can intentionally positively influence the sound.. i didn't mean to offend. it is just not that scientific and my mind has a problem with that,, just saying..