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String Trees

Zhaezzy

Junior Member
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    I am curious as to which headstocks that are not angled require no string trees. I needed one on my strat for the E and B string the g string might need one too it is quite shallow but it works fine. About 20 years ago I did a guitar with the arrow headstock and I don't recall it needing them. 
 
No headstock design requires string trees. Some guys put them on to mimic the way some old instruments were put together, but it's just asking for tuning trouble. Leo invented string trees back at the dawn of Fender guitars to compensate for poorly cut nuts. Without the trees, strings would often pop out of their poorly cut slots. It was easier/cheaper to add the ten cent trees than it was to train workers and allow the production time for proper nut setup.
 
What Cagey said.

Plus also this:

You could conceivably improve your odds by going with a 3x3 headstock shape with the tuning machine holes arranged to maximize the break angle over the nut.

And finally, a lot of folks solve the break-angle problem by using staggered tuners.  a little quick arithmetic suggests the break angle is not gonna be reduced by that much if you lower the hole in the tuner spindle by a couple millimeters, so maybe they work because folks who will go to the trouble of selecting staggered tuners are likely to go to the trouble of ensuring they have a properly cut nut as well.

And now back to work.
 
Kevin is definitely the expert on this subject. The Jazz Master neck he did for me is superb, no string trees needed. If you want a great job at a more than fair price, I highly recommend him!

I do however believe that there are additional factors that effect the need for string trees beside a properly cut nut. Consider fret choice, action height, and tuner choice. The JM neck has 6105 frets which measure .047" tall. My usual choice for frets is 6230, the SS versions being .043" tall. I also prefer an action set to around ~.040".  Both my Strat and my Tele are set up this way, both have staggered tuners, and both required string trees due to a buzz at the high E. The Strat has a standard nut, cut by a local tech who did a great job. The Tele has a ZeroGlide nut with a .043" fret wire, which is the same height as the frets, and you can't get any closer than that.

The other difference between the JM and my other two Warmoth builds is tuner choice. The Jazzy has Gotoh tuners while the other two have Hipshot. Looking at the Gotoh tuners, it appears that the string holes sit lower on the post than they do on the Hipshot.

I believe the combination of very low frets, low action, and the choice of tuners is what necessitated the use of string trees on the Strat and Tele. Kevin has finesse and experience that I don't possess, and maybe he can work his mojo and and come up with a different result, but for me, string trees solved the buzz problem.

In any event, the Mastery trees I used do not appear to have negatively effected tuning stability. But then again, I don't use a trem, the one on my Strat is decked, and the Tele is a hard tail.

Just my 2 cents, FWIW.  :glasses9:
 
Thank you for the kind words. I get good results on nut setups because I spend what some might consider an inordinate amount of time on them. I know nobody would want me on their production line  :laughing7:

Of course, slot width is important. Too narrow, even by .001", or exactly the size of the intended string, and you'll get string hangups. In other words, you don't want a .009" slot (or smaller) for a .009" string. The nut will tend to "grab" the string and you'll have intermittent tuning issues. You can lubricate the slot, but like contact cleaner on scratchy pots/switches, you're just putting lipstick on a pig. The problem hasn't been solved.

The depth of the slots is another thing, and something that's tough to get right without going too far. Nobody wants to start over (which is often your only choice if you do go too far), so the natural tendency is to leave them a bit shallow. The vast majority (I'm guessing 95% or better) of guitars out there are this way, so there's little kickback from the user base. It's what they expect. This causes a different kind of tuning issue because the farther you have to push a string down, the more you increase its tension, so you end up sharping notes. You usually can't hear it on individual notes, but it's enough to cause dissonance in chords that's fairly easy to hear and will aggravate the hell of sensitive ears. Then you end up chasing your tail trying to adjust intonation at the bridge and never getting happy because that's not the problem.

Then there's the slot shape, which is critically important regardless of depth. Any time you get a "singing" or "sitar" sound on open strings, it's a slot shape problem. The exit end of the slot facing the speaking length of the string has to be square to the string, or the string will bang against the slot as it vibrates. It's usually a very tiny anomaly physically, but for as small as it is it has a surprisingly loud effect. It also has a tendency to reflect harmonics differently at different frequencies, which is why it often sounds like a "sitar".

You can get a similar effect on wider nuts like you see on Gibsons if the slot is cut too square, or more accurately, square all the back to the exit end of the nut on the headstock side. Here, headstock angle can hurt you as the bend in the string causes a "hump" as it moves through the nut, making the pressure at the exit end to the speaking length too light and allowing it to vibrate in the slot. Same symptoms as described above.

Of course, you also want the bottom of the slot to be round so you have good contact with the string, and you need enough sidewall on the slots to keep strings in place, but not so tall that they become garbage collectors.

Get all that right, and string trees aren't necessary.
 
110% with Cagey. None of my guitars have string trees because they all have PROPERLY cut nuts and are set up correctly overall. 6105 and 6150 frets and not lowest of the low action. If trem bridge they are effectively hard tailed as I do not actually use the trem arm.
 
If you find you need string trees and you're worried about strings getting caught in them - another option are the Dynaguides. I put one like that on my Fender Super Sonic instead of the original. I think it looks pretty cool.

148778869629743100.jpg

 
Cagey said:
Get all that right, and string trees aren't necessary.
I agree. I doubt that the tech who cut the nut on my Strat labored tirelessly for the $35 he charged!

I do however believe that for the Tele, with the zero fret, there was no other option short of modifying the end of the fret board. I could have shaved .010" off the nut end of the board to allow proper placement of a standard fret, perhaps the .047" you sent me, rather than use the special offset ZeroGlide frets. But then I would have been committed, with no good option to revert to a standard nut if things didn't work out! This meant that the only way to alter the geometry would be to use a zero fret that is taller than the rest of the frets on the neck.

As supplied by ZeroGlide, the next taller, and for that matter the tallest fret, is .051". I tried the taller fret and was not happy with it because it raised the action at the first fret, requiring additional pressure to move the string, and sharped the note. I also could not get the 12th fret action to where I wanted it without buzzing out around the 15th. Same as would happen with a standard nut that was cut too shallow. So in this case, at least for me, a string tree was the way to go.

Cagey said:
Thank you for the kind words. I get good results on nut setups because I spend what some might consider an inordinate amount of time on them. I know nobody would want me on their production line  :laughing7:

No thanks necessary, you do exemplary work!
:headbang:
 
Still, I appreciate it. I know some folks have a tough time finding someone they can trust to do some things, so a nod from a discerning customer is wonderful thing all around.
 
Thanks for all the replies. The Dynaguides look like a nice option. My strat neck has a roller tree which does not work as good as one would think. I was looking more to which headstocks have a shorter distance to the nut for the strings or the headstock is lower in relation to the nut.
 
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