Strat culture shock

[KaiserSoze]

Had a thought which led to a question;  Recently finished my third build, which is a very responsive and rather bright strat.  It sounds great.  The specs are in the strat section down below if you're interested, but I won't re-hash here.

Anyway, I'm obviously still in the "honey will you please put that thing down" phase of ownership, and have noted that I can't play a strat very well yet.

My other guitar is a mahogany dual humbucker warmoth build that I enjoy a great deal, and the only guitar Ive been playing for quite a while.  It's heavy, warm, and a large sound.

Although the strat has the same bridge, neck shape, scale, setup, and strings, it's a very different instrument.  I am finding that I'm working to refine my touch, picking, and phrasing because single coils react so differently and you can hear EVERYTHING.  If I play the strat the same as I play the humbucker guitar,  I don't get the stratty-ness as much. 

I've heard it said that strat players sound like themselves, and its harder to have the personal sound with humbuckers.  Agree? 

I guess the question is if anyone else experienced this?  I guess I have a better appreciation for those strat players who use the single coils so well.  Just thought it might be a fun discussion.  Humbuckers vs single coils from the players perspective.  Or maybe its a dumb observation...

 

[SustainerPlayer]

You are absolutely right. Single coils have a greater definition and less compression.

It's like a single coil have 255 nuances where humbuckers have 127. (Numbers just to illustrate the idea - not an actual measurement).

But even so I still think I can hear a players personality even with humbuckers. I could pick Satriani out of 10.000 others just to name one. Even my wife can.

 

[Cagey]

I had the same experience about 100 years ago, moving from an old '61 Gibson Melody Maker that had been modified to death (and I had been playing for a good 10 years) to a G&L SC3, which was basically Leo's Strat the way he wanted to do it. Hated it at first, because it asked me to do things right. None of the compression the 'buckers gave me, so I had to get better at picking/strumming, and much more articulate with a wider dynamic range so I couldn't be so sloppy. You really needed to be very deliberate with the thing. The net result was that it made me a better player.

 

[KaiserSoze]

Thats a good description Cagey....deliberate.  I've been taking the old go-to licks and needing to pay more attention to how I'm playing them.  I've also found that the licks I thought I knew, ie. a couple Knopfler things, are actually hard as f*** to get to sound right.

 

[tangent]

Agree with all of the above.

I started on a cheapo squier strat, then played Gibsons exclusively for 15 years.  Few years back I bought a strat on a whim, just for variety (actually I was GAS'ing hard for a PRS but didn't have the cash so I figured a strat would tide me over, hehe). 

Fast forward a few years and I've sold all my Gibsons and have 4 strats, 2 teles (all warmoth except the one USA standard strat)

Learning to control single coils definitely made me a better player, although I'd say learning to play acoustic guitars had a much more drastic effect in that regard.  Its hard to hide flaws in your technique when there's no reverb or distortion there to smooth things out.

Humbuckers can be fun too though, I did just build an HSH strat.  =)

 

[Cagey]

Thats a good description Cagey....deliberate.  I've been taking the old go-to licks and needing to pay more attention to how I'm playing them.  I've also found that the licks I thought I knew, ie. a couple Knopfler things, are actually hard as f*** to get to sound right.

I think you'll find it's worth the effort. You'll be forced to play more accurately, your sfx will sound better as they have a cleaner signal to work with, and you can get more nuance out of your amp and guitar both. Plus, you can always grunge up single coils (or their noiseless equivalents), but it's tough to clean up humbuckers. So, you have more range of expression.

Of course, nothing really sounds like a double-wide humbucker, so it's good to have an instrument or two that has those as well. I tried for years to get that grungy tone back using over-wound single coils or "Hot Rails" style pickups in Strats, but it's just not the same. Different in a good way, but still, no cigar. You need the pole separation a PAF design provides to get a sort of "comb filter" effect that just isn't possible in a single coil package due to its narrow aperture.

 

[Cagey]

Learning to control single coils definitely made me a better player, although I'd say learning to play acoustic guitars had a much more drastic effect in that regard.  Its hard to hide flaws in your technique when there's no reverb or distortion there to smooth things out.

No kidding. I hardly ever pick up my acoustic these days because it shows me in no uncertain terms and in no time flat just how pitiful I am. It's a nice Taylor, too, so I can't blame the instrument.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I find the opposite to be a true; an acoustic is much more forgiving than a loud, bright bridge pickup on an electric.  Of course, despite their similarities, they are different instruments with different playing styles.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

For me, Tele's tend to show off my lack of ability in stunning detail.  Trevor also mentioned something along these lines when he was talking about his Precision Guitar Kits Les Paul Junior vs his bender teles.  The single coils let you know where you need work, and the rigid twang of the tele seems to bring this into amazing focus.  That being said, my hardtail strat also shows off my lack of ability...
Patrick

 

[mark1178]

Agree with all points.

Hello, I'm mark1178, and I have noticed how Jimmy Page sloppy I am when I play single coils and am trying to better myself as a guitar player.

Once I get my baby built, it will have two hum's, but SD triple shots, to get that single cool sound. Now that my lab results have come back with no sign of Rheumatoid Arthritis, I can happily re-train my sloppy hands back to my normal sloppiness.

 

[swarfrat]

Despite 45 years or so of mountains of evidence to contrary, there is still a prevailing common widsom that says single coils aren't as rock n roll. My take on the gain aspect of it is, enough is too much.  You should always be wanting a little bit more.

 

[Cederick]

I've heard it said that strat players sound like themselves, and its harder to have the personal sound with humbuckers.  Agree? 

Eeeh no... Personal sound is whatever you wanna go with  :doh:

If for example Eric Johnsson lend out his guitar to somebody using his amp and playing the same thing as he does, it would sound the same.

I really DON'T belive in that stuff people say about that the sound is in your hands and shit like that.
If you play with fingers instead of pick, you might have different "hardness" on the skin, but for experienced finger players I don't think there's so much different if for example I would play with fingers because I never do, which means I have very song fingers.

If we talked about the chords, the role the finger plays on the fretboard is probably maybe 0.0003% of the sound. You have your fingers beyond the fret... If you play fretless, that however might change the sound a bit more.

Rant  :toothy12:

 

[SustainerPlayer]

"... he (EVH ..red) remembers a meeting with Ted Nugent after sound check:

    He’s going, “Let me play your guitar!” I go, “Okay, here you go.” He starts playing my guitar and it sounds like Ted. He yells,”You just removed your little black box, didn’t you? Where is it? What did you do?” I go, “I didn’t do anything!” … He says, “Here, play my guitar!” I play his big old guitar and it sounds just like me. He’s going, “You little s—!”"

--------

"Chet Atkins was in a Nashville studio warming up for a session with his Gretsch.  A young technician came into the studio and stood watching open-mouthed until Chet finished.  ”Gee, Mr Atkins, that guitar sure sounds fabulous!”  Chet placed the guitar on its stand, smiled at the tech and said, “Well, son, how does it sound now?”"

 

[mayfly]

For me, Tele's tend to show off my lack of ability in stunning detail.  Trevor also mentioned something along these lines when he was talking about his Precision Guitar Kits Les Paul Junior vs his bender teles.  The single coils let you know where you need work, and the rigid twang of the tele seems to bring this into amazing focus. 
Patrick

Yep - the telecaster forces you to be a better player.  I have found though that after 5 years of playing telecasters that I seem to have few problems with handling that new acoustic 

Of course, the strings are like 1000x thicker, which has it's own issues...

 

[KaiserSoze]

Well as long as we're going there, if I took out every piece of my signal chain that was highlighting my lack of ability I'd be standing in an empty room...and then I'd have to turn off the lights too.

 

[croquet hoop]

If for example Eric Johnsson lend out his guitar to somebody using his amp and playing the same thing as he does, it would sound the same.

I really DON'T belive in that stuff people say about that the sound is in your hands and shite like that.

It would be fun to see a video of that — for instance Gilmour playing a crappy guitar, and a crappy player playing through Gilmour's guitar and rig. I'm pretty sure Gilmour would sound like himself, and that the crappy player would sound like crap.

 

[bagman67]

If for example Eric Johnsson lend out his guitar to somebody using his amp and playing the same thing as he does, it would sound the same.

I really DON'T belive in that stuff people say about that the sound is in your hands and shite like that.

It would be fun to see a video of that — for instance Gilmour playing a crappy guitar, and a crappy player playing through Gilmour's guitar and rig. I'm pretty sure Gilmour would sound like himself, and that the crappy player would sound like crap.

I think compared to Gilmour, for example, I am a crappy player - but I do sound like myself whether I play an ES335 style guitar into an EL84-driven combo, or a Tele into a Marshall, or whatever.  At least my crappiness is consistent.  There's some comfort in knowing I have been at it long enough and with sufficient diligence to develop something approaching an idiolect on the guitar.

 

[Cederick]

If for example Eric Johnsson lend out his guitar to somebody using his amp and playing the same thing as he does, it would sound the same.

I really DON'T belive in that stuff people say about that the sound is in your hands and shite like that.

It would be fun to see a video of that — for instance Gilmour playing a crappy guitar, and a crappy player playing through Gilmour's guitar and rig. I'm pretty sure Gilmour would sound like himself, and that the crappy player would sound like crap.

I talk about playing the EXACT same thing as the other, not playing your own stuff.

I have heard people playing solos just like the original, but it didn't sound the same because it was different equipment. If the player on the other used the exact same style, pick, guitar, amps, settings and recording equipment in the same mix there would be no actual difference. The ONLY thing that would have been different would be the fingers touching the string but if the guitar is fretted then... Eh, who can hear those promilles of difference?  :cool01:

 

[bagman67]

Well, Cederick, I think if a player goes to the effort to learn to reproduce someone else's solo or rhythm part precisely as-recorded, and also lines up identical gear to what was used on the recorded version, you're probably correct.  Guthrie Govan gets some mileage out of mimicking other guitarists that way, and it's a real crowd-pleaser.  Eric Johnson can make himself sound pretty much exactly like Jerry Reed, or Chet Atkins. 


But there are accomplished players who by their own admission can't swing it.  When Joe Satriani was playing guitar in Mick Jagger's band, I read an interview with him where he said that he never would have gotten the job if he'd been required to play it like Keef did.  Fortunately Mick hired another guitarist to play the as-recorded Rolling Stones riffs, and encouraged Satriani to play things in his own idiosyncratic way.  I kinda wish I had seen Jagger on that tour.

 

[Nightclub Dwight]

I remember when I was a kid I thought I had outgrown my guitar.  Now talk about an embarrassment of riches, I was playing on a decent used ES335.  But at the time I was convinced that I had gone as far as I could with that guitar.  I brought it in to the music store and told the guys my problem, and suggested that they show me and my dad some other guitars so I could trade mine in towards something "better." 

The clerk said fine, but plugged my guitar in first and strummed a few chords.  He then noodled around for a few minutes, absolutely blowing me away with his playing.  It quickly became clear that the guitar was not the problem holding me back so much as it was my talent (or lack of.)  That was thirty years ago and my first lesson in the "its not the guitar, its the player" argument.

I'm still trying to catch up.