Strange request for a buddy

[fdesalvo]

Hope all's well with you mutants!  It's been a while.  I'm staying afloat with two toddlers, corporate goonery, and amp work in between.  Gah!

As you may know, amplifiers are my forte, but one of my customers needs help with wiring his guitar, so I offered.  Here's what he wants:

4 way switch with 4 conductor bridge and single coil neck


position 1: Bridge full and neck

position 2: Bridge rear coil and neck

Position 3: bridge front coil and neck

position 4: neck

He has already installed a "gilmour switch" which will cut the neck off when opened. 

Is his idea possible with a standard 4 way?  I have no idea how to wire this.



TIA!

 

[ragamuffin]

I could be wrong but I don't think that's possible with a standard four way switch. Maybe with a super switch.

 

[mayfly]

At first blush the hardest part will be swapping around those pickup coils....  Might be able to do it by switching in grounds and the hot leads... 


Hmmm.  In the middle of D&D with my kids right now - give me until later tonight an I might have something.

 

[fdesalvo]

I can't wait until my boys are old enough for D&D.

Thanks, guys.  Whoah - is that an Albert Lee Warmoth!

 

[ragamuffin]

I can't wait until my boys are old enough for D&D.

Thanks, guys.  Whoah - is that an Albert Lee Warmoth!

Yep! I shaped it from a body blank, they don't offer the shape unfortunately

 

[fdesalvo]

I can't wait until my boys are old enough for D&D.

Thanks, guys.  Whoah - is that an Albert Lee Warmoth!

Yep! I shaped it from a body blank, they don't offer the shape unfortunately

Hats off! That’s outstanding and the headstock works!

 

[ragamuffin]

Thanks! I think it's my prettiest Warmoth build

 

[Rick]

Probably could get that with a ten way switch from freeway, exactly how I couldn’t tell you.  I’d write them.  The tricky one would be position three.

 

[stratamania]

I don't think that is possible with a 4 way tele switch as it does not have enough poles to work with. If you wanted to use a 5 way super switch and have a position that does something else than the four already listed then yes it should be possible.

With a 5 way super switch you could do...

position 1: Bridge full

position 2: Bridge full and neck

position 3: Bridge rear coil and neck

Position 4: bridge front coil and neck

position 5: neck

Then you don't need the "gilmour switch" either I would assume. Can you clarify that front coil means closest to the neck and rear coil closer to the bridge?

I am not aware of there being a 4 way available as a super switch type. Let me know if the above would do the job and I can help with the wiring.

 

[fdesalvo]

Thank you guys for taking a crack at it. Someone whipped this up for me. Might be helpful if you find yourselves in similar situations.

 

[stratamania]

That does not look to me like it will work.  Have you tried it?

Although I can see what it is getting at so it has potential. But there are no common terminals shown.

 

[fdesalvo]

That does not look to me like it will work.  Have you tried it?

Although I can see what it is getting at so it has potential. But there are no common terminals shown.

Looking to test Monday. Ty for having a look my man.

 

[mayfly]

Interesting way of doing it - just short out the top coil when you want the second coil only.  Handy that the neck PU is intended to be on all the time.  I'm thinking that should be ok actually.

 

[Sadie-f]

That does not look to me like it will work.  Have you tried it?

Although I can see what it is getting at so it has potential. But there are no common terminals shown.

The Earth symbols all shown in the circuit diagram are the common point in the circuit.

 

[stratamania]

That does not look to me like it will work.  Have you tried it?

Although I can see what it is getting at so it has potential. But there are no common terminals shown.

The Earth symbols all shown in the circuit diagram are the common point in the circuit.

I did not say common points or earth points. I wrote common terminals.

The common terminals are referring to the switch...in this case a 4 way switch has two poles and each pole has a common terminal and four other terminals.

 

[stratamania]

Here is how from a mechanical switch connectivity perspective the schematic could be made to work.

Per the wiring schematic using Seymour Duncan colours for bridge humbucker

The switch has two poles lets call them A and B. Each has a common called C and terminals 1 to 4.

Switch pole A

C wire out to volume pot input lug
1 Bridge hot black wire & jumper to 2
2 jumper to 1 & 3 and jumper to pole B2
3 jumper to 2
4

Switch pole B

C Red & White Bridge humbucker
1
2 jumper to pole A2
3 wire to ground
4

Connect the neck hot wire directly to the volume pot input or via an on/off switch as mentioned being a "gilmour switch"

The above I now think with those connections should work. Explanation below for those wondering what it is doing.

It is interesting in that the neck pickup is not attached to the 4 way switch at all meaning it is on in all positions unless turned off by another switch.  Had the neck pickup hot wire been switched by the 4 way this scheme would then have needed three poles and there are only two available.

Pole A effectively provides the black hot wire of the humbucker connectivity to 1 and is jumped between  1, 2 & 3 and the common terminal of this pole provides an output from the switch to the input of the volume pot.

Pole B has the red and white wires from the humbucker coils series link joined together and connected to the common terminal acting as an input to the switch.

To achieve the splits-

In position 2 terminal B2 via a jumper to A2 takes the signal from the red and white red and white wires and shunts them to hot which means the slug or front coil is shorted out and the screw or rear coil is active.

In position 3 terminal B3 via a wire to ground takes the signal from the red and white wires and shunts them to ground which means the slug or front coil is active and the screw or rear coil is out of the circuit.

 

[fdesalvo]

Stratamania is onto it.

I'm having some issues that I'm hoping were due to the schematic translation of which side of the switch was which (A/B)  and the wiring code of this Wolftone -- turns out it's identical to Peavey:

North start - Red
North finish - Green
South start - White
South finish - Black

The diagram shows the switch poles oriented vertically, instead of in parallel.  Also, it shows the commons oriented in the same direction, instead of being on opposite ends.  I'm using a standard Fender 4-way. I read amp schematics daily, but have been puzzled by this.

 

[stratamania]

Here is an adaptation based on the Peavey colour codes.

Switch pole A

C wire out to volume pot input lug
1 Bridge hot red wire & jumper to 2
2 jumper to 1 & 3 and jumper to pole B2
3 jumper to 2
4

Switch pole B

C Green & White Bridge humbucker
1
2 jumper to pole A2
3 wire to ground
4

The black wire of your humbucker goes to ground.

Your switch will look something like:

  C 1 2 3 4
    1 2 3 4  C

Look at the sides of it you should be able to identify visually which is which by moving the selector. Remember the selector will be at the opposite end to the terminal, due to how it pivots and it looks something like this from the side.
                                             
                                              Switch tip
                                                /
                                              /         
                                              /
                                            /
                                          terminal
 
For switch pole A as I described pick the one with the common closest to the volume pot for practical purposes which makes the other pole then pole B.

Then wire the common out to the volume pot, then the jumpers and then the wires from the pickup. If you just identify one pole as A and the other as B then wire it per the list above it should work fine for you.

Perhaps identify the terminals and draw it out as described.

Sorry I am unable to provide a visual diagram as I sometimes do but I will be traveling later today (I cannot say I am thrilled by it yet) and will be away for a few days... should have access to the forum though...after I have arrived by tomorrow.

 

[fdesalvo]

That’s more than clear snd I’ve learned so much from your analysis. Very grateful. I’ll let you know what happens. Safe travels brother.

 

[stratamania]

That’s more than clear snd I’ve learned so much from your analysis. Very grateful. I’ll let you know what happens. Safe travels brother.

Thanks Frank, just got the FFP3 masks ready for the plane... and modded the last post slightly.