Soloist first guitar build questions.

[dcbrown73]

As I build this guitar, I'm going to have a few questions and may need some advise.  Hopefully this thread is where I can do that. 

I will try to find answer elsewhere, but this places seems like an incredible resource with all the experienced builders here.

If this is the wrong place, please let me know!

Anyhow, first question I've come to ask is the fit of the neck and the body.  I've always read that the neck and body should fit snugly together.  The next and body I purchased together, do not seem to fit very snugly together.  I do not want to do anything to the neck / body until I know both are okay and there is nothing wrong with this wiggle.

Here is a quick video I made showing it wiggle when I put them together  (sliding the neck in from the top->down. (as Warmoth recommends) I did not slide it in sideways)

Excuse the focus shaking.  I'm using a Pixel 3 phone and it has that focus bug that makes using the camera awful.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NRp3qRBdYk[/youtube]

So the question is, should I contact / send it back to Warmoth?  Or is that okay?  That definitely isn't a snug fit I expected and both the neck and body where quite expensive.

Thanks for your feedback!
Dave

 

[PhilHill]

That does seem to be a little loose. The main point though is if, as the customer, your not happy with it then I would say get a hold of Warmoth and discuss it with them. They like happy customers and will do whatever they can to solve a problem.

 

[VinceClortho]

With Warmoth I've had both tight fits - like, snap-in-place tight - and looser fits that are closer to yours.  I actually prefer a fit that isn't super tight as it allows the neck to twist sideways a touch in order to get the string alignment dead on. 

From the video it does seem on the loose side for sure but it is hard to tell if it is too loose.  If it was my guitar and there isn't a noticeable gap along the sides of the neck pocket when it is mounted I personally wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Megatron]

Def talk to customer service to learn why they thought that particular fit was ok because they claim to check every neck fit when body and neck are on the same order.

Regardless, there are many articles on the web discussing how neck pocket tightness can lead to cracked bodies when the neck and body expand at different rates with the seasons. Also you can find a myriad of finish cracks for this reason. Main thing is that your strings are straight along each fret all the way up to the nut (ie. neck isn’t mounted crookedly)

 

[dcbrown73]

Thanks guys.  I've sent Warmoth an email and included the video to get some feedback from them.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[PhilHill]

A neck pocket like that should have what they call a light press fit. Meaning that it should fit into the pocket with slight pressure. You shouldn't have to lean on it or employ hammering to get it in. You see a lot of videos where they cram the neck in then proudly show that they can pick the whole thing up by the neck and the body won't fall off. That, to me is too tight. What it's supposed to be is that you can pick up the body and the neck will stay in place. You want it tight enough to ensure full contact between neck and body. The inside dimensions of the pocket should measure about 2 maybe 3 thousands of an inch larger than the outside dimensions of the neck heel. At most.

 

[Cactus Jack]

None of my 4 Warmoth's are loose like that. In fact, all of mine take noticeable pressure to seat, and once seated, they are locked in. Have you measured the neck and pocket? When the neck is in the pocket how significant are the gaps or overhang?

 

[dcbrown73]

None of my 4 Warmoth's are loose like that. In fact, all of mine take noticeable pressure to seat, and once seated, they are locked in. Have you measured the neck and pocket? When the neck is in the pocket how significant are the gaps or overhang?

So, I just measured it. 

Body Cavity Width: 55.75mm
Neck Width: 56.18mm  (bottom that slides into it)

Now, the neck shows slightly wider (0.43mm) than the body cavity.  What did become more apparent is how short one side of the body cavity is compared to the other side.  Basically there isn't much holding the neck on one side.  The short side is about 18mm while the other side is 2.5x-2.75x larger.  Maybe this is why there is so much play?  Is this expected on a Soloist body?  I'm not sure.  (see image below)

 

[VinceClortho]

What did become more apparent is how short one side of the body cavity is compared to the other side.  Basically there isn't much holding the neck on one side.  The short side is about 18mm while the other side is 2.5x-2.75x larger.  Maybe this is why there is so much play?  Is this expected on a Soloist body?  I'm not sure.

That is normal.  You can check the photos of the in-stock Soloist bodies to confirm.

https://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/images/bodies/large/SLCP159a.jpg

I am a bit confused that your neck is wider than the neck pocket but it still doesn't friction-fit in place?  Are you sure the neck is seated fully when you test the fit?

 

[dcbrown73]

That is normal.  You can check the photos of the in-stock Soloist bodies to confirm.

https://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/images/bodies/large/SLCP159a.jpg

I am a bit confused that your neck is wider than the neck pocket but it still doesn't friction-fit in place?  Are you sure the neck is seated fully when you test the fit?

To be clear.  It's not sloppy in the pocket.  As you slide the neck down into the pocket. It's own weight will not allow it to slide all the way down into the pocket. Though it doesn't take much force to get it in either.  It's own weight isn't enough though.

When you see it wiggle in the video, it's wiggling towards the short side of the pocket.    I was expecting a more firm fit than I was seeing.  (I certainly didn't expect it to move so easily as it does)

 

[PhilHill]

Alright, let's go back to the start for a second here. If I'm seeing this correctly your placing the neck into the pocket, then while holding the neck at it's widest point your taking hold of it with your other hand up near the headstock and pulling sideways. Due to the fact that one side of the pocket is much shorter than the other, and your pulling toward the shorter side, then yes your going to get movement no matter how tight it fits because of the amount of leverage your exerting on it due to the length of the neck. And would it be possible for you to show the points at which you measured the neck and pocket, because I'm confused as to how a neck that's almost half a mm larger than the pocket can fit into it without a lot of pressure.

Sorry, last minute edit. Please understand, I'm not saying you don't know how to measure. I know myself how hard it is to properly measure something that is irregularly shaped, just trying to clarify.

 

[dcbrown73]

Alright, let's go back to the start for a second here. If I'm seeing this correctly your placing the neck into the pocket, then while holding the neck at it's widest point your taking hold of it with your other hand up near the headstock and pulling sideways. Due to the fact that one side of the pocket is much shorter than the other, and your pulling toward the shorter side, then yes your going to get movement no matter how tight it fits because of the amount of leverage your exerting on it due to the length of the neck. And would it be possible for you to show the points at which you measured the neck and pocket, because I'm confused as to how a neck that's almost half a mm larger than the pocket can fit into it without a lot of pressure.

Sorry, last minute edit. Please understand, I'm not saying you don't know how to measure. I know myself how hard it is to properly measure something that is irregularly shaped, just trying to clarify.

I get what you're saying.  I'm basically using my calipers to measure it.  I'm doing so at the base where it straightens out (curved corners) on both the body and the neck.  I do realize how it seems weird that I would measure the neck larger than the body pocket.  It's not exactly perfect the way I was measuring it, and I didn't mark the sides to ensure the caliper was perfectly straight.  I just tried to get it the best I could at that moment.

For me, it looks like they are very close to the same size and it's likely the movement is due to the side's size difference.  It's probably just fine, I just get a bit overly cautious due to the sizable investment.    I'm completely confident that I can do this.  I just didn't want to start until I got confirmation that there wasn't something specifically wrong with it due to the note that Warmoth provides in the box saying not to do anything until you examine everything to ensure everything is good.  (ie, void my ability to send it back if their is and I've already drilled, sanded, etc the parts)

 

[PhilHill]

I get what you're saying.  I'm basically using my calipers to measure it.  I'm doing so at the base where it straightens out (curved corners) on both the body and the neck.  I do realize how it seems weird that I would measure the neck larger than the body pocket.  It's not exactly perfect the way I was measuring it, and I didn't mark the sides to ensure the caliper was perfectly straight.  I just tried to get it the best I could at that moment.

For me, it looks like they are very close to the same size and it's likely the movement is due to the side's size difference.  It's probably just fine, I just get a bit overly cautious due to the sizable investment.    I'm completely confident that I can do this.  I just didn't want to start until I got confirmation that there wasn't something specifically wrong with it due to the note that Warmoth provides in the box saying not to do anything until you examine everything to ensure everything is good.  (ie, void my ability to send it back if their is and I've already drilled, sanded, etc the parts)

Thanks for understanding, I don't always word things exactly as I should. I checked because when I started out working on guitars, I once made the mistake of forgetting that the sides of the neck and pocket aren't parallel to the center line, so if you measure them in different places, you get different measurements. Easy mistake that caused me grief.
I don't blame you for being concerned due to the cost, I would be too. And it makes good sense to double check things before proceeding. You don't want to blow your guarantee because something got overlooked. Good luck on the build, it should be a great guitar when your done. :icon_thumright:

 

[stratamania]

From the explanations and discussion so far I would say there is nothing to be concerned about.

 

[dcbrown73]

I thought I had purchased most of everything, but it isn't till you sit down that you figure out you haven't.

Last week I ordered the pots and caps for the electronics.  I picked up .022uF and .047uF orange drop caps (so I could try both) from Mouser Electronics.  Though I watched a video comparing .022, .033, and .047 caps and I liked the sound of the mid range .033 caps the best after I had order the others.  Murphy's Law right? 

Not a big deal. I will start with the .047.  If I think it's a little dark, I can try the .022 and then go from there depending on how I feel.

I ordered a Oak Grigsby 5-way switch from AllParts, but they were sold out and sent me a CRL 5-way switch instead.  Nice free upgrade.  I won't complain.

I thought I had ordered the black Schaller locking tuners when I ordered the body / neck.  It seems I only selected drilling the headstock and didn't order the tuners.  Did that today.

I also picked up 500k CTS audio pots from AllParts.  My intent is to use audio pots on both tone knobs and the volume knob.  I definitely want audio pot on the volume, but doesn't any one else have an opinion about linear pots on the tone?  I've changed pickups and stuff in the pasts, but the pots where already there, so I never thought about what type of pots they were.  I suppose I could test the ones in my existing guitars, but I just made a call.  If someone has a good reason to go linear, I am up to listen.

Oh and is 500k pot the correct ohm for a volume knob?  I didn't even think to check when I ordered it.

Today I shielded the body cavity and installed the locking nut (for the Original Floyd Rose)  I also created a cardboard cutout of the cavity so I can use it to do the initial electronics on and then migrate that to the body once it's done. (to help protect body during most of the soldering)

Couldn't figure out much of anything else to do for today since I'm missing some electronics and the tuners.  The neck / frets are completely flat as checked with my straight edge.  So I do not intend to doing anything else to the neck at this point.  That may change once I apply string tension to it once it's bolted together.

Anyhow.  Here is shielded cavity.  I think it looks okay. This was my first ever shielding attempt, so please let me know if you notice anything that maybe I did wrong?  Oh I also shielded the back of the cavity cover.

I do not need to shield the pickup and springs cavity correct?

 

[stratamania]

500K pots are usually used with Humbuckers and 250K with single coils. Although there can sometimes be variations those are the traditional values.

You don't need to shield the spring cavity.

 

[dcbrown73]

500K pots are usually used with Humbuckers and 250K with single coils. Although there can sometimes be variations those are the traditional values.

You don't need to shield the spring cavity.

Thanks, I have dual humbuckers which is why I ordered the 500k pots.  I was wondering about the volume pot though.  Should that one be 500k also?

 

[DangerousR6]

From the explanations and discussion so far I would say there is nothing to be concerned about.

Exactly.

 

[stratamania]

500K pots are usually used with Humbuckers and 250K with single coils. Although there can sometimes be variations those are the traditional values.

You don't need to shield the spring cavity.

Thanks, I have dual humbuckers which is why I ordered the 500k pots.  I was wondering about the volume pot though.  Should that one be 500k also?

That would be the usual choice for humbucker volume and tone pots.

 

[rgand]

500K pots are usually used with Humbuckers and 250K with single coils. Although there can sometimes be variations those are the traditional values.

You don't need to shield the spring cavity.

Thanks, I have dual humbuckers which is why I ordered the 500k pots.  I was wondering about the volume pot though.  Should that one be 500k also?

That would be the usual choice for humbucker volume and tone pots.

Years ago I replaced the single coil pickups in a Tele with humbuckers. The thing sounded really good. Then one day a few years ago I changed both the pots to 500K from 250K. It was as though I had finally dialed the tone control open and the guitar came alive for the first time. Now I put 500K pots in all my guitars with humbuckers.