Should I shield my H-S-H strat?

[ORCRiST]

Hi all, while I don't have the body yet - I've debated since the beginning of this project on wether to shield my strat or not.
Current build thread here: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=12723.0

I've read varying opinions on the 'Net about shielding effectiveness in general or needed applications. I'm just wondering if its
nessessary in general (best practices) or if any of you believe in or have experienced negative aspects of your shielded
guitars?

If you're using hum-canceling PU's (either the stacked singles or plain ol' humbuckers) would a guitar benefit from shielding at
all (i.e. the other electronics inside)?

Are there any negative tone-robbing aspects in any sort of situation?

So far, I've gotten all sorts of copper shielding from Warmoth and Stew-Mac. All I've done is apply a complete copper sheet on
the underside of my warmoth pickguard, and cut around the outline then cut away any excess (PU, control routs/holes).

This left one nice continuous sheet on the bottom of the pickguard. I easily have enough to do the body cavity (once I get it) but, just
wondering if it will really be needed or should I 'just do it' anyways? Two of the three pickups are humbuckers. The bridge is a
Dimarzio Super Dist., the middle a Fender 'Custom Shop' Texas Special single-coil, neck is a Dimarzio PAF 36th Anni.

Thanks!

ORC

 

[AutoBat]

i always do, despite the 'eggs are bad for you/eggs are good for you' studies.

 

[jackthehack]

No

 

[ORCRiST]

One yes, one no - informative - but not really helpful!  :toothy11:

Opinons, reasons, data!

 

[JaySwear]

i'm planning on shielding my HSS strat just simply because it will have singlecoils. they're supposed to be hum canceling, but better safe than sorry! i've never shielded a guitar before (my 2 warmoths) but both of those had humbuckers so i really saw no need for it.

plus i've got shielding tape left over from build #1 that i decided not to use!

anyway i vote yes just because it will have a singlecoil, and chances are that at some point you'll be using that by itself. you could totally get away with not shielding it and you might be fine with no hum at all, but whats the harm? it'll only take a couple more minutes. (couple more minutes meaning as long as it takes to carefully shield!) isn't your strat going to have a pickguard anyway? you could even do a less than perfect shielding job and have it look just fine from the outside

EDIT:

If you're using hum-canceling PU's (either the stacked singles or plain ol' humbuckers) would a guitar benefit from shielding at
all (i.e. the other electronics inside)?

this is what i was wondering as well, since i'll be using dimarzio hum cancelling single coils. somebody made a fiesta red strat with their "area" pickups and said they could take a decent amount of gain... even still i think i'll shield.

 

[Dan025]

i'm planning on shielding my HSS strat just simply because it will have singlecoils. they're supposed to be hum canceling, but better safe than sorry! i've never shielded a guitar before (my 2 warmoths) but both of those had humbuckers so i really saw no need for it.

plus i've got shielding tape left over from build #1 that i decided not to use!

anyway i vote yes just because it will have a singlecoil, and chances are that at some point you'll be using that by itself. you could totally get away with not shielding it and you might be fine with no hum at all, but whats the harm? it'll only take a couple more minutes. (couple more minutes meaning as long as it takes to carefully shield!) isn't your strat going to have a pickguard anyway? you could even do a less than perfect shielding job and have it look just fine from the outside

EDIT:

If you're using hum-canceling PU's (either the stacked singles or plain ol' humbuckers) would a guitar benefit from shielding at
all (i.e. the other electronics inside)?

this is what i was wondering as well, since i'll be using dimarzio hum cancelling single coils. somebody made a fiesta red strat with their "area" pickups and said they could take a decent amount of gain... even still i think i'll shield.

that can be a recipe for noise, are they rails style (side by side coils) or stacked style? if they are stacked the interference must make it under the pickguard to the lower coil as to cancel the upper. if anything the area pups and other noiseless singles are less noisy than a typical humbucker due to lower output, surface area, and inductance, think about it!

and to the OP the small piece of aluminum under a fender pickguard is normally adaquate. you can do more but to be honest i dont bother anymore, i find that making good solder joints and a good grounding plan is much more critical. i just started using a single large crimp on eyelet that is wedged between the volume pot and the pickguard to ground everything except for the bridge ground which i solder directly to the output jack so there are only two wires going from the body to the pickguard which i put connectors in so the pickguard is completely removable. works great and no noise, no burt pots, no cold solder joints on the pots, and i can use fancy pots with plastic housings or even fancier mil-spec pots with stainless steel housings.

 

[Cagey]

There are two ways noise gets picked up by your guitar - via the pickups and the wiring. I know, I know - "thanks, Mr. Obvious!" But, keep in mind you can't shield your pickups - they're necessarily exposed. So, unless they're of a noise-cancelling variety, they're going to pick up noise no matter what you do. In fact, even noise-cancelling pickups pick up noise, but they cancel it out. So, you could machine your entire guitar out of solid copper and weld it to a ground rod sunk 250 feet into the ground, but a single coil pickup is still going to hum. It's a screen door on a submarine.

As for the wiring, just use twisted/shielded wire everywhere, and make sure the shield is grounded. That's 100% more effective than shielding your pickup/control/trem cavities because you're actually closely shielding the things that can pickup noise, rather than placing walls here and there and hoping by some sort of magic that the stray magnetic fields in the vicinity will be scared away.

All that said, shielding your various cavities doesn't affect the tone or playability or anything, so if it makes you feel better, go for it. Just be aware that you're wasting your time.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I have used shielded wire, and had just the plate under the pick guard.  Honestly, they are both quiet.  Jack's, "No," is based on his experiments in an electrical field isolated room for something to do with cell phones.  He found it didn't do anything measurable to shield the cavities.  It can be looked up if you want.  I have shielded the electronics in an active bass, because that preamp can pick up noise.  However, the shielding makes it very easy to short wires as well, and that is another version of lame.  The copper foil billowed around the the shaft area of the pot when tightened and touched one of the lugs.  Annoying.

If it were up to me, I would get the shielded wire and use it.  Partially because I can have the signal and ground close and not have a mess of wires everywhere, and partially because I think the stuff is neat.  I honestly do not think it really is necessary.  But, I do feel that if you want to do it, and it makes you like your build more, that there is no reason not to other than cost and time.
Patrick

 

[leejord]

Dan025,do you have pictures or diagram that explains your grounding to a simpleton like myself

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Here's a recent thread:
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=12054.0

I also quit soldering to pots also.  I can't do it decently is the main reason.  On my last build I shielded it and added basically a grounding buss.  All of the grounds solder in one location and it's not on any hardware like pots or switches involved in the circuit.


Both pots are mounted to it and make continuous electrical contact.  The switch is grounded by contacting shielding tape which is also contacting the metal buss.  FWIW, grounding the pots is not even necessary for the circuit to work.  It's done to treat the pot as a ground buss and by grounding the pot, it is effectively shielding what's inside. 

But to answer your question, I don't believe it is necessary.  Single coils are still going to hum.  If it is a guitar where the pickup cavities are not continuous, the cavities being sheilded but not grounded can actually make a problem worse.  If overlapping copper tape pieces, they need a solder joint between them because the adhesive is not as conductive.  I got a 4 to 10 ohm reading between pieces before soldering.  The copper tape Warmoth sells, in my experience, the adhesive was way less conductive than the brand in the DiMarzio packaging.  It needed no solder.  I considered using the shielding paint, but every review I'd read says it's even less conductive.  It's also quite pricey at $32 for a 1/2 pint, granted a 1/2 pint will last forever.

 

[back2thefutre]

I dont shield anymore cause it always looked crappy when I did it and I dont care anymore

 

[reery]

I have a small question here:

As I'll build a HSH-Strat I want to shield my new one, too. But... do I have to connect the copper shielding in the routing with ground? I know that I have to ground the shielding of shielded cable but I'm not sure if so with the copper.

 

[Cagey]

If the guitar is wired with shielded cable, there's no point in the copper shielding of the various cavities. Ground it or not, it won't make a difference. But, technically, in order to maintain the fiction that it's actually doing something, it should be grounded.

 

[leejord]

I used the "coaxial" wire that comes in warmth wiring kit.is that considered "shielded".this"grounding of shielding " on shielded wire.what does that involve?thanks

 

[Cagey]

I used the "coaxial" wire that comes in warmth wiring kit.is that considered "shielded".this"grounding of shielding " on shielded wire.what does that involve?thanks

Yes, that's "shielded" wire/cable. The outer braid is the shield. It needs to be soldered to ground in order to be effective. Only one end needs to be connected, so wherever it's convenient is ok. Don't worry about ground loops; there's no such thing inside guitars, regardless of what the kids tell you on Harmony Central.

 

[leejord]

Thanks Cagey.So if I use shielded cable from back of vol pot to ground of input jack.,I need to solder some of braid at one end.does it matter which?thanks

 

[Cagey]

No, it doesn't matter which end as along as what you attach that end to is grounded.

 

[leejord]

What about connection between vol pot and tone pot.there is no ground at either end.do I solder in another length of shielded cable between  strands of braid off one of these ends and say back of vol pot which is grounded?

 

[Cagey]

You just need to ground the braid; the wire you use to do that with doesn't need to be grounded.

For future reference, running lines like that is easier with some uninsulated pre-tinned bus wire. Somewhere between 24ga-20ga is fine.

A small spool of a hundred feet or so shouldn't run more than $3-$4, and will probably last forever.

 

[leejord]

sorry for asking so many questions on such a basic concept but I want to make sure i got this right. If I use shielded wire for every connection in the following diagram except wires coming directly off pick-ups, there would be 8 further wires, each running from shield to ground.thanks