Shopping around for a new amp, and....

[jay4321]

... having a tough time.

I've talked to a few people and got some great pointers (thanks Death by Uberscall in particular). Could use a few more, my experience with tube amps is pretty limited. Guess I'll start with what I'm looking for.

What I've always liked the best are the old 2 channel Mesa dual rec's, very trendy I know but still a great sound overall. Some guitar sounds I really like: Tool, Three Doors Down, early 90s Faith No More, Foo Fighters, Toadies, and something like Godsmack and 80s Anthrax at the heaviest end. I do like a lot of metal but not the ultra-high gain approach, if find it you peel it back a little it sounds a little more earthy and gritty. With that said I'm not necessarily a Mesa loyalist, I've heard a lot of great Marshall sounds too. If you took Angus's guitar sound and added just a little more edge and bottom end, that would be a pretty good approximation. I'm more a Les Paul & humbucker guy but have a couple Teles & Strats laying around. I don't have a need for massive amounts of output, in fact it's mostly for home playing and recording so if anything lower wattage is a big plus.

This is strictly for rhythm, I do play a lot of drop tuning stuff also. Lots of chugging and it can't be weak in this area at all.

On to the question at hand: One of the things that's been catching my eye are the ton of used Marshall JCMs on eBay, 600s, 900s, etc. Many are in the very reasonable $500 - $800 range, some being combos which is a plus too. Can anyone weigh in on these? Specifically how it relates to my style?

 

[jay4321]

Also, given the home recording situation and my proximity to neighbors, it's very likely an attenuator will become part of the equation here. Not sure if that makes a difference (but in any case I have a lot to learn about them yet).

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Mesa Single Rec, Roadster & Tremoverb would do well.

Another good choice for the money would be the Carvin Legacy.  :icon_thumright:

 

[jay4321]

I mean to thank you in the top post DBU, not VA - sorry got you guys' screen names confused for some reason -

I did look at the Mesas in question, and I can't rule out putting together a little extra to go for them, but all things considered it might be a better idea to look real hard at the sub-$1000 range first. The single rec though, that's not one I know a heck of a lot about.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

I mean to thank you in the top post DBU, not VA - sorry got you guys' screen names confused for some reason -

I did look at the Mesas in question, and I can't rule out putting together a little extra to go for them, but all things considered it might be a better idea to look real hard at the sub-$1000 range first. The single rec though, that's not one I know a heck of a lot about.

Single Rec is a 50 watt version of the Dual Rec.  :icon_thumright:
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/the_single_rectifiers.html

The Recto-verb is a 50 watt also.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/Rect-O-Verb_/rect-o-verb_.html

 

[jay4321]

I guess I have to look pretty hard at those.

So what's the difference between tube rectification and silicone diode rectifiication - I'm really not familiar with what this means or how it would affect the overall tone. I certainly wouldn't mind a simpler, cheaper version of the dual rec if that's what it amounts to, so long as it sounds the same at the end of the day. All these large words frighten and confuse me.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

I guess I have to look pretty hard at those.

So what's the difference between tube rectification and silicone diode rectifiication - I'm really not familiar with what this means or how it would affect the overall tone. I certainly wouldn't mind a simpler, cheaper version of the dual rec if that's what it amounts to, so long as it sounds the same at the end of the day. All these large words frighten and confuse me.

Rectifiers add "sag" to the power section, allows the amp to compress slightly when played.

Here's another option:
Peavy 5150/6105 along with this - http://torresengineering.stores.yahoo.net/dualrecpeav5.html

 

[rightintheface]

my orange rockerverb 50 does near everything. very versatile head IMO. they go for much cheaper used as well

 

[mullyman]

I mean to thank you in the top post DBU, not VA - sorry got you guys' screen names confused for some reason -

I did look at the Mesas in question, and I can't rule out putting together a little extra to go for them, but all things considered it might be a better idea to look real hard at the sub-$1000 range first. The single rec though, that's not one I know a heck of a lot about.

I am a Mesa loyalist. I have a Dual Rectifier head and a Single Rectifier combo. I can tell you now, the Single Rectifier has all the balls you need to do everything that you want to do. Hook that bad boy up to a 4x12 and you got some serious muscle going. To be honest, I'm currently in the process of selling both of mine and getting the Single Recti head. You really don't need any more than that. You'll get the all the tones you want out of it.

If you're a Godsmack/Metallica type "chugga chugga" sound guy then you should stay away from Marshall. Especially the 800 and 900. Those amps will not get the tone you are looking for. You seem to have the same sound in your head that I have and the only Marshall that even came close was a DSL 100 with every button on it pushed in.....and it still came up short. I know there are Marshall purists out there and I will honestly say "God Bless, enjoy your amp" but Marshall isn't for me. EL34 tubes will never get the sound of the 6L6's....and vice versa.
MULLY

 

[mullyman]

I guess I have to look pretty hard at those.

So what's the difference between tube rectification and silicone diode rectifiication - I'm really not familiar with what this means or how it would affect the overall tone. I certainly wouldn't mind a simpler, cheaper version of the dual rec if that's what it amounts to, so long as it sounds the same at the end of the day. All these large words frighten and confuse me.

Well, to keep this simple, a rectifier turns an alternating current into a direct current. All amps have them so in all fairness any amp could be called a rectifier. The dual rectifier uses 2 types, the tubes and the silicone diodes. With the silicone diode selected you'll get more punch to your sound and more headroom. With lead playing or really tight rhythms. Using the tubes will give you a warmer sound. So, basically, the Mesa Dual Recti gives you the choice of which rectifier to use. With the Single Rectifier you only get the tubes. Trust me, the Single kicks all kinds of ass.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVVod-vuvJk[/youtube]

 

[mullyman]

I guess I have to look pretty hard at those.

So what's the difference between tube rectification and silicone diode rectifiication - I'm really not familiar with what this means or how it would affect the overall tone. I certainly wouldn't mind a simpler, cheaper version of the dual rec if that's what it amounts to, so long as it sounds the same at the end of the day. All these large words frighten and confuse me.

Rectifiers add "sag" to the power section, allows the amp to compress slightly when played.

Here's another option:
Peavy 5150/6105 along with this - http://torresengineering.stores.yahoo.net/dualrecpeav5.html

I concur with this except I would say go with the 5150II or the 6505+. Those amps will save you a lot of coin and give you that kick ass metal tone you're looking for. But, if you want that "Mesa Boogie" sound, you'll only get it from a Mesa.
MULLY

 

[Patrick from Davis]

The 6505+ is a great amp, but it could use some help.  One thing that Peavey has done over the years is bias their amps ridiculously low.  Even though the 6505+ has a bias pot, it sometimes doesn't have the range it needs.  People just swap it out with a, "Bias mod."  On the Peavey boards, the Head guy from Peavey has stated you can use any kind of output tube in it that will work with the 6L6 circuits.  So the Power Tranny has got juice.  They are generally cheap and really sound good.  But they are 120 Watts and can be quite loud.  Mesa's have an altered tone circuit from the Marshalls, and it comes with the mids pre scooped.  Good for chugga sounds, but Mesas get lost in the mix if not dialed in correct.  They sound great, but you needs mids to cut through with a band.  The Amp I have been trying to find cheap is the JCM 900 SL-X.  Out of the box it is a Marshall with an extra pre amp tube.  If you get some aftermarket goodies (tubes, possibly a set of trannies that are more versatile) for it, it is a great dirty amp.  Sure it has a lot of gain to play with, but it does dial back well, and if you need to have a looney tune amount of gain you can get it from the amp.  EL34's are a bit too fuzzy and warm for my tastes, I like KT77's.  Drop in replacements (yeah, you always have to bias an amp with new tubes) and they sound between a 6L6 and an EL34.  But everything I have mentioned is 100 watts or greater.  For a bedroom job, that is tough.  There is a 50 watt version of the SL-X but for home use that is still roaring.  Either of the two amps above sounds good to me, but then again, you are looking for you.  Good Luck
Patrick

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Whoops, I guess the SL-X has 5881's in it, my bad.  They are similar (more or less) to the 6L6.
Patrick

 

[DangerousR6]

I mean to thank you in the top post DBU, not VA - sorry got you guys' screen names confused for some reason -

I did look at the Mesas in question, and I can't rule out putting together a little extra to go for them, but all things considered it might be a better idea to look real hard at the sub-$1000 range first. The single rec though, that's not one I know a heck of a lot about.

Single Rec is a 50 watt version of the Dual Rec.  :icon_thumright:
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/the_single_rectifiers.html

The Recto-verb is a 50 watt also.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/Rect-O-Verb_/rect-o-verb_.html

Is the Mesa combo's single rec's as good as the heads?

 

[Death by Uberschall]

I mean to thank you in the top post DBU, not VA - sorry got you guys' screen names confused for some reason -

I did look at the Mesas in question, and I can't rule out putting together a little extra to go for them, but all things considered it might be a better idea to look real hard at the sub-$1000 range first. The single rec though, that's not one I know a heck of a lot about.

Single Rec is a 50 watt version of the Dual Rec.  :icon_thumright:
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/the_single_rectifiers.html

The Recto-verb is a 50 watt also.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/Rect-O-Verb_/rect-o-verb_.html

Is the Mesa combo's single rec's as good as the heads?

I've never compared them.

 

[mullyman]

Is the Mesa combo's single rec's as good as the heads?

I have the combo and it's great on it's own and even better if you run it through a 4x12. It's a good amp and worth the money.
MULLY
haven't heard the head version

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Here's an amp you should consider, don't know why I didn't think about it earlier.

Rivera K-Tre'

I have one, it's a great amp, paid a little over $900 for mine used.

Here's a review I did of it for another forum.

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=44037

 

[exaN]

My experience with tube amps is pretty limited as well, so don't take my words for granted.

I've had a Carvin X100B for about 2 months now and for the price I got it (around $500 used but mint condition) I think it's an awesome amp, especially for someone who's just starting with tubes. It's amazingly easy to set up (coming from an amp noob). Good chunky sound and good clean channel. The amp is great for 80's rock/metal without going over the top with the gain.

The downside is if you don't live near a Carvin shop, you can't try it. I took a guess and ordered one anyway and I'm very satisfied with my purchase.

For the price/quality value, you might one to check out for a Carvin X100.

PS: I know some people on this board who had very positive experiences with this amp.

 

[Volitions Advocate]

Shameless plug:

I use the RIvera Knucklehead Reverb 100 and it's a beast.  It does everything.  aaaaand. I'm selling it. lol

It might be a bit out of range for what you want to pay though.  The head is 2200 alone and I'm trying to sell mine with the cabinet.  The whole thing cost me just shy of about 5000 Canadian Dollars.  I've been asking for 3700 for it (canadian) with the hopes that people will buy it if they give me a lower offer and I accept.

It's a pretty versatile amp, not as high gain as the K-Tre but it will play blues and metal all the same.  Adam Jones actually used it in the studio for 10000 days along with his marshalls and diezels, and you can use the FX loop send/return as an attenuator.  So i always have mine dimed out but I can play it in the house.

Rivera is a great company all around and I doubt you would be disappointed with anything you buy from them, if you decide to go that direction.  Most of their amps are midi switchable too, and many that aren't out of the box have a module you can buy from them to install as well.

 

[mayfly]

I strongly recommend that you buy VA's Rivera - 4x12 and all  :icon_biggrin: