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Shocked & offended by $35 picks? How about $25 packs of strings?

mrpinter

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Are there any other premium string players here? I'm talking about Pyramid, maybe Newtone, and Thomastik-Infeld. I haven't played any Pyramids, and just tried Newtones once, but for twenty years I've used nothing but Thomastiks on all my guitars. Similar to the pricey picks, they simply sound better, play smoother and last longer than other strings I've used. If you're skeptical, I challenge you to give them a try. What I use are their jazz strings for my electrics (both Bebops and the flat wound Swings) and Plectrums on my acoustic. They're crazy good... very musical and bright without being metallic. I used to also use their Blues Sliders (pure nickel on round core) and Power Brights (an undisclosed alloy on a hex core) and they are also great strings.

TIjazzbebop12s.jpg


and just to show you what a complete string geek I am, I modify that set of Bebops by switching out the high E, B and G with .011, .015 and .019 gauges to make them more of a general purpose set.
 
It's hard to be shocked and offended by $25 guitar strings when the average pack of bass strings is $30-$40.  :blob7:

How much playing do you get out of your strings? For me, guitar strings just don't last long enough to be affordable beyond $10 a pack. My usuals cost about $5 a pack, and last two to three weeks, if I'm lucky.
 
I normally use cheap strings I buy in bulk like these. They will normally last me 15-30 days depending on how much actual play they get.

I have just bought some of those new D´addario NYXL which they claim will make my life much better  :icon_jokercolor:

I'm looking into this because I started feeling a bit tedious maintaining 10+ guitars in playable condition. Can't stand playing old strings and when the guitar collection grows big I always seems to have to restring each time I pick a new guitar.

2014-08-19%2017.28.09.jpg


It's only been a week - so it's too early to tell.

About the money ... I can't really get worked up about the prices on anything related to my hobby.  :laughing7:
 
line6man said:
How much playing do you get out of your strings? For me, guitar strings just don't last long enough to be affordable beyond $10 a pack. My usuals cost about $5 a pack, and last two to three weeks, if I'm lucky.

This is one of the great things about Thomastiks, their long lasting-ness. I change my acoustic strings about every four months. I could easily let them go longer, because they aren't anywhere near dead by then, but as they age they get a bit softer sounding - which some people like but I like the crisper sound of newer strings. The Jazz strings I use on my electrics last longer. The Bebop round wounds will go for six months or so before I feel the need to change them, and I'll get at least that mileage from the flat wounds. It would appear that my strings are costing roughly the same as yours per hour of playing time.
 
mrpinter said:
It would appear that my strings are costing roughly the same as yours per hour of playing time.

That's a point worth considering.

I buy strings in bulk because I go through a lot of them, but not as many on my own guitars as I used to. Time was, I was a weekly changer, but I was putting in a helluva lotta hours in back then. Lucky for me, I have fairly dry hands even under pressure, so they didn't get too gunky, but they just stretched out too far after a while and would either break, feel like they were gonna, or refuse to tune.

These days, they oxidize/deteriorate before they wear out. But, I started using stainless strings on my own fiddles, which more or less solved that problem. Anywhere else, I use D'Addarios. They're reliable, consistent, sound good, and are cheap enough that I can cut them off without feeling irresponsible when I'm working on something and just wanna get the things out of the way. Almost everything I work on any more has locking tuners on it, and it's tough to tune/detune much without breaking a string or two, or re-install them if you take 'em off altogether.
 
Marketing hype. 'Probably been around since the wheel was invented.

Your tone doesn't come from a particular brand of strings (or picks). Of course the material they're made of affects the tone (stainless, nickle, bronze, etc.) , but it mainly comes from your fingers. It's affected by your pickups and amplifier, and whatever EQ or effects processors you may have in your signal chain. Of course the more comfortable you are, the better you play, so use whatever equipment makes you the most comfortable.
 
Street Avenger said:
Marketing hype. 'Probably been around since the wheel was invented.

Your tone doesn't come from a particular brand of strings (or picks). Of course the material they're made of affects the tone (stainless, nickle, bronze, etc.) , but it mainly comes from your fingers. It's affected by your pickups and amplifier, and whatever EQ or effects processors you may have in your signal chain. Of course the more comfortable you are, the better you play, so use whatever equipment makes you the most comfortable.

Wait just a minute... let's dissect what you said. First - tone doesn't come from strings or picks, and then in the very next sentence you say "the material they're made of affects the tone...". How can it be both ways??? And then there's that tired old chestnut about your tone coming "from your fingers". Give me a break. What you play comes from your fingers, but the timbre of your instrument - it's sonic characteristics and shadings if you will - comes from the woods used and construction of the instrument, as well as from the bits effecting the vibrations of said instrument that produce the sound. String choice is huge in terms of making up a large ingredient of tone, and sit down sometime and try a bunch of different kinds of picks - you'll see (or hear) that they make a noticeable difference in the sound produced too - maybe not as prominent a part of the tonal mix as the instrument itself, or an amplifier or effects, but they still make an important contribution to the whole.
 
Street Avenger said:
Marketing hype. 'Probably been around since the wheel was invented.

Your tone doesn't come from a particular brand of strings (or picks). Of course the material they're made of affects the tone (stainless, nickle, bronze, etc.) , but it mainly comes from your fingers. It's affected by your pickups and amplifier, and whatever EQ or effects processors you may have in your signal chain. Of course the more comfortable you are, the better you play, so use whatever equipment makes you the most comfortable.

What a bunch of nonsense. Firstly, there are more to strings than just tone. Consider longevity and feel, for example. Second, as mrpinter pointed out, you're contradicting yourself. Does the material affect tone, or does it not? Third, even if the player's own hands give the bulk of the tone, who says we can't discuss and consider the other things that contribute to smaller degrees? Even the pros have their preferences in strings, and not just when they are paid to have opinions. Strings matter to a lot of people, and for good reason.
 
mrpinter said:
Street Avenger said:
Marketing hype. 'Probably been around since the wheel was invented.

Your tone doesn't come from a particular brand of strings (or picks). Of course the material they're made of affects the tone (stainless, nickle, bronze, etc.) , but it mainly comes from your fingers. It's affected by your pickups and amplifier, and whatever EQ or effects processors you may have in your signal chain. Of course the more comfortable you are, the better you play, so use whatever equipment makes you the most comfortable.

Wait just a minute... let's dissect what you said. First - tone doesn't come from strings or picks, and then in the very next sentence you say "the material they're made of affects the tone...". How can it be both ways??? And then there's that tired old chestnut about your tone coming "from your fingers". Give me a break. What you play comes from your fingers, but the timbre of your instrument - it's sonic characteristics and shadings if you will - comes from the woods used and construction of the instrument, as well as from the bits effecting the vibrations of said instrument that produce the sound. String choice is huge in terms of making up a large ingredient of tone, and sit down sometime and try a bunch of different kinds of picks - you'll see (or hear) that they make a noticeable difference in the sound produced too - maybe not as prominent a part of the tonal mix as the instrument itself, or an amplifier or effects, but they still make an important contribution to the whole.

If you're gonna dissect what I say, try to be more thorough. I said "your tone doesn't come from a particular brand...". Every company claims that their product will produce the best tone. It's a lot of marketing hype. It's a well-known fact that a stainless steel string is brighter sounding than a Nickle string, regardless of brand. Phosphor-bronze acoustic strings don't sound as bright as 80/20 bronze...again, regardless of brand.

Yeah, a metal pick will produce more attack than a plastic pick, but aside from that, pick selection should be a matter of what feels the best in your fingers and what's easiest to hold onto. Tortex and Gator-Grip picks are easier for me to hold onto because they are not as slippery as regular plastic or Delrin, however they sound no different. Picks with a beveled edge seem to give me better control for lead playing.

Some of us (not me) have lots of money and can waste $35.00 on a pick without blinking an eye, but I guarantee you won't get $35.00 worth of improvement in tone. The greatest guitar tones ever produced have been with a pick that cost no more than 25 cents.
 
First off, let me apologize for coming off a bit too strongly perhaps - but I'm sort of passionate about music gear. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about a few things. When comparing brands of strings, it's true that there really isn't that much difference between the products of most of the companies competing for the budget minded players' business.

I bet you've never tried some of these "boutique brands" of strings. If you have, you'd know that they are quite different from the generic product most of us have all of our playing experience with. FYI, Thomastik-Infeld does in fact use different materials from what is customary in the business for certain components of their strings. Their core steel is not the Swedish steel everybody else uses, for example, but a more expensive German steel. Another big difference is that in a number of T-I strings, they utilize lengthwise filaments of silk, or "inlays" between the core and wrap wires. This is done - as one of their primary technical consultants (a PhD in acoustic science) told me - to create "a kind of mechanical filter to partially attenuate odd order harmonics the higher frequencies". The difference can be heard in the smooth, very musical, tonalities from these strings. That's pretty sophisticated stuff, and it is very expensive to make these things and to keep the QC at a high level.You are definitely getting a very differentiated product - from a mechanical and engineering standpoint - for your money. And their players typically are fanatically loyal to the brand.

Similarly, some of the hand made picks have little in common with the "twenty-five cent picks" that most players use. Blue Chip picks are made from an exotic machining specialty type of polymer (I think) that has very unique self lubricating properties that makes them feel softer than they actually are, and makes them almost impervious to wear. I've been told that the material in their $35 picks costs the company $28, and then there is considerable hand work before it can be sold as a Blue Chip. They have a softer attack and a tone that might be closer to nylon than to other pick materials.

Gravity picks are cut from a high grade acrylic sheet stock, and then the bevels are hand ground and polished. This makes for a stronger, longer lasting - and I think more "musical" and livelier sounding and responding - pick than the typical injection molded mass manufactured picks. The feel is very different between a Gravity pick and one of the mass produced ones - to the point that if I use one of the latter, I feel the pick is an impediment to my playing, rather than an aid. That, and did I mention that they sound better? What is $35 difference in tone that you guarantee won't be there with hand made picks like Gravity and Blue Chip? That's like asking if players get their money's worth from the most coveted collectible vintage guitars, or from a hand crafted Suhr or Anderson, or Collings instruments, compared to a lower line product from Gibson or Fender. If you have to ask how and why, then the whole issue doesn't even apply to you.
 
Those thomastik-infeld jazz beebop strings look nice. I was checking some out and they go up to 14 gauge. I bet they would sound nice tuned down a half step. Those 12's as well. Might try me a set or 2.
 
All that high-dollar string stuff just amazes me--I've never even considered it! I play blues through a tube amp and pay about $4.00 a set for Ernie Balls. Do I think paying 5 or 6 times as much would make what I do sound any better? Nope, not for a second! BUT; as guitar junkies I do understand and wholeheartedly encourage ANYTHING that makes us happier players!!  :icon_thumright:
 
Great Ape said:
BUT; as guitar junkies I do understand and wholeheartedly encourage ANYTHING that makes us happier players!!  :icon_thumright:

That's really where it's at, isn't it? Tone, playability, appearance, etc. are all about making us happy. Certainly boundless examples of behaviour exist that make little or no sense technically, mechanically, aesthetically, financially, etc. but so what? If it turns out good music (or even if it doesn't) and makes us happy, who is anybody to bitch? Call it a love story. I probably wouldn't marry most people's wives, or eat many foreign foods, or join any religion, but that doesn't make them the wrong choice.
 
Cagey said:
Great Ape said:
BUT; as guitar junkies I do understand and wholeheartedly encourage ANYTHING that makes us happier players!!  :icon_thumright:

That's really where it's at, isn't it? Tone, playability, appearance, etc. are all about making us happy. Certainly boundless examples of behaviour exist that make little or no sense technically, mechanically, aesthetically, financially, etc. but so what? If it turns out good music (or even if it doesn't) and makes us happy, who is anybody to bitch? Call it a love story. I probably wouldn't marry most people's wives, or eat many foreign foods, or join any religion, but that doesn't make them the wrong choice.

Good thinking Cagey. To each his own. As long as it aint hurtin anybody then live n let live.
 
Surf n Music said:
Good thinking Cagey. To each his own. As long as it aint hurtin anybody then live n let live.

Right.

I remember back when I first joined this board 5 years ago, I was much more curmudgeonly than I am now (can you imagine?  :icon_biggrin:). CB, a highly accomplished and knowledgeable guy who used to be a major contributor, took me to task once for jumping on things I didn't like that were basically aesthetic issues. Told me to STFU and get lost (or words to that effect) unless I wanted to work and play well with others.

It really shocked me, and I wanted to attack him, as I thought I was being helpful. But, wanting to be a good doobie and a part of what was obviously an excellent resource, I reviewed a number of my posts and decided he was right. I was being a bitch for no good reason other than I wouldn't do what some folks were doing. As if I was some sort of oracle of good taste and judgement.

In my defense, I was coming from a long line of tech sites where things are very black and white. Factually based. Objective. Subjects were relatively easy to argue about, because all you needed were easily proven facts. Not so on musical sites. It would be like switching from the Republican party to the Liberal/Progressive/Socialist side. Objective vs. subjective. Facts vs. feelings. Long-term vs. short-term thinking.

I'm still a frequent source of pushback, but I at least try to limit it to mechanical/electrical issues. Junk bridges, obsolete frets, impractical finishes, tool choices, procedures, etc. Hopefully, I'm of some help or at least provide food for thought.
 
mrpinter said:
First off, let me apologize for coming off a bit too strongly perhaps - but I'm sort of passionate about music gear. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about a few things. When comparing brands of strings, it's true that there really isn't that much difference between the products of most of the companies competing for the budget minded players' business.

I bet you've never tried some of these "boutique brands" of strings. If you have, you'd know that they are quite different from the generic product most of us have all of our playing experience with. FYI, Thomastik-Infeld does in fact use different materials from what is customary in the business for certain components of their strings. Their core steel is not the Swedish steel everybody else uses, for example, but a more expensive German steel. Another big difference is that in a number of T-I strings, they utilize lengthwise filaments of silk, or "inlays" between the core and wrap wires. This is done - as one of their primary technical consultants (a PhD in acoustic science) told me - to create "a kind of mechanical filter to partially attenuate odd order harmonics the higher frequencies". The difference can be heard in the smooth, very musical, tonalities from these strings. That's pretty sophisticated stuff, and it is very expensive to make these things and to keep the QC at a high level.You are definitely getting a very differentiated product - from a mechanical and engineering standpoint - for your money. And their players typically are fanatically loyal to the brand.

Similarly, some of the hand made picks have little in common with the "twenty-five cent picks" that most players use. Blue Chip picks are made from an exotic machining specialty type of polymer (I think) that has very unique self lubricating properties that makes them feel softer than they actually are, and makes them almost impervious to wear. I've been told that the material in their $35 picks costs the company $28, and then there is considerable hand work before it can be sold as a Blue Chip. They have a softer attack and a tone that might be closer to nylon than to other pick materials.

Gravity picks are cut from a high grade acrylic sheet stock, and then the bevels are hand ground and polished. This makes for a stronger, longer lasting - and I think more "musical" and livelier sounding and responding - pick than the typical injection molded mass manufactured picks. The feel is very different between a Gravity pick and one of the mass produced ones - to the point that if I use one of the latter, I feel the pick is an impediment to my playing, rather than an aid. That, and did I mention that they sound better? What is $35 difference in tone that you guarantee won't be there with hand made picks like Gravity and Blue Chip? That's like asking if players get their money's worth from the most coveted collectible vintage guitars, or from a hand crafted Suhr or Anderson, or Collings instruments, compared to a lower line product from Gibson or Fender. If you have to ask how and why, then the whole issue doesn't even apply to you.
No apology necessary. I was never offended; we're just having a friendly discussion here. My position is that if something makes you happy, if you can afford it and you don't experience Buyer's Remorse, then that's what you should have. Most of us here know that guitar is a very personal instrument. Guitar players are typically temperamental. Whatever is most comfortable or whatever gives us that "vibe" is what makes us more able to concentrate on playing what we want to hear.
 
HERE, HERE...or, I should say; HEAR, HEAR!! Enjoy your strings, picks, pickups, amps, and woodgrains and finishes. God knows there's enough out there to bring us sorrow and pain--how lucky WE are to have the guitar to bring us all manner of consternation, frustration, pleasure, fulfillment and joy! 
 
It's always "hear, hear", dude ;)

I agree about the "if it makes you happy, do it" thing. I can't get behind all of it (an easy example is expensive capacitors), but I'm happy if it makes others happy. The one thing that does get me upset is when people insist they can hear a difference, in order to validate their purchase. I don't think that's fair on the other members of a community, who might end up saving up spare change for ages so they can be a new capacitor or something, for entirely spurious reasons. So, yeah, if it makes you happy, do it, but be careful about telling everyone else it'll make them happy too.
 
Jumble Jumble said:
I agree about the "if it makes you happy, do it" thing. I can't get behind all of it (an easy example is expensive capacitors), but I'm happy if it makes others happy. The one thing that does get me upset is when people insist they can hear a difference, in order to validate their purchase.

Well, I don't know about capacitors, but in the case of the picks and strings I use - I CAN hear a difference. If I didn't, I wouldn't keep buying the things! Validate my purchase?! Sheesh.
 
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