Shellac toner

[croquet hoop]

Let's say I want to achieve something like this:

Considering I'd rather not dye the wood directly and do not have spraying equipment (the best I could use would be a preval unit or rattle cans), here is how I would do it :

- a coat of sealer (tru-oil?) on the top
- masking tape on the binding area
- progressive application of tinted shellac to build the colors to the desired intensity (transtint in shellac)
- final top coats (either nitro cans, KTM-sv or a few more coats of shellac)

The back and sides of the body (swamp ash) would be filled with z-poxy, tinted with shellac to match the edges of the burst, then clear coated.

The reason I'd rather not stain the wood directly is because I'm more comfortable with the idea of building the colors until I get what I want, and I can wipe it entirely with thinner if I mess up, while staining the wood directly leaves, well, stain in the wood, even after sanding.

Plus, I figure that using a coat of sealer will prevent any color from bleeding under the masking tape on the binding area (or that, if it does, scraping would be easier). It will also enhance the figure of the wood (but maybe any transparent finish would anyway?) under the coats of stained shellac.

Any gross misconception on my part? Does this procedure look ok to you, or is there a glaring flaw somewhere ?

 

[Tonar8352]

I would say do a test board. I can tell why I don't think it would work but what I have found is that things that are not suppose to work sometimes do. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

[croquet hoop]

Yes, I will try first on a test board. Out of curiosity, what do you think would not work ? I was a bit concerned that each subsequent coat of tinted shellac would "drag" the previous one and mess up the sunburst pattern, or that the color, when reaching its desired intensity, would end up too opaque and hide the grain. Did you have any other worst-case scenario in mind?

 

[Tonar8352]

I don't think it will blend together correctly. The transition of bursts comes from the melting together of all the various colors. I think you have a greater film build in the darker area that will not be level with the rest of the finish. I think it will also not have the blended look but will show a straight edge.

That is what I think not what I know for sure. Like I said many times people give opinions based on what they have read or been told but it is not correct and it is not based in actual application experience. I know what material manufactures base their recommendations on and that the real world of a professional painters are many times miles apart. Since I have not attempted to do a finish the way you plan I am speaking from intuitive knowledge not from real world experience.

Give it a shot and keep us appraised of the results. 

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, but like Spock, your guesses are worth more than most people's "facts".

 

[croquet hoop]

Thanks alot for elaborating on your thoughts Tonar, even though you say they come from intuition rather from experience they're a most welcome input. Especially given your proven ability to produce excellent finishes.

Actually, I found the following message that suggests that it could work : http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=2976.msg30800#msg30800 Unfortunately the picture links are dead. So much for seeing how the technique fares.

As a matter of fact, there is a body that looks exactly like I want in the showcase, so if it's still there when I can shell out the cash for it (within next week hopefully), I'll grab it and the need to produce a custom finish will be less pressing (yup, I succumbed to Cagey's rationale — If W does it, then have them do it). Still, I'll get a bottle of transtint (I have no tint at hand at the moment) and try to see if it works; that could be helpful for the next body.

 

[Cagey]

I recently did an experiment on a Maple test stick with some shellac just to see how it would behave over boiled linseed oil.

I'd already put some of the BLO on the stick in a previous experiment a month or so ago, so it was ready to go. All I did was wipe the shellac on top of that to see how it would look/stick.

I tried to get some pictures, but you can't really see what I'm talking about. Anyway, the shellac seemed to cover ok, but it also seemed to pull away from the edges, like it wanted to bead up or something. More to the point, wiping it on made for a much thinner coat, and it wanted to film over really fast. So, there was very little working time, like you'd need to rub something in or blend it.

Now, this was straight from the can - no thinners or conditioners of any kind - so it may not be pertinent. I know the "French Polishing" technique relies on rubbing in shellac, so they must slow its behavior down somehow. I can't imagine doing it with what I have here. The applicator wanted to drag/skid/skip in much less than a minute.

For whatever that's worth.

 

[croquet hoop]

Yes, there are so many ways of applying shellac. Unfortunately the one that seems most suited in my case (french polish) is the one I have no experience with. Yet. :icon_biggrin:

As for the shellac not really liking BLO ("pulling away from the edges"), I have the feeling that would not be as problematic on tru-oil, which hardens differently than BLO. Worst case, the wash coat before the stain could be done with shellac instead of oil.

 

[croquet hoop]

Otherwise, do you think that spraying tinted shellac with a preval unit would work better than french polishing, or would the transition/melting problems be the same?

 

[Cagey]

I don't know. I'm not sure you could even spray shellac from a Preval unit. They're not very good with anything that has a viscosity much higher than a solvent.

 

[Hbom]

Don't you usually put a sealer under Tru-Oil rather than use TO as the sealer? :icon_scratch:

 

[bagman67]

Don't you usually put a sealer under Tru-Oil rather than use TO as the sealer? :icon_scratch:

Depends on the application.  Lots of folks go with Tru-oil as the only coating.  For more deep-pored lumber, I think the sealer might better serve you.