Schaller locking tuners warning

[atomheart411]

Really not great on a few counts. First and foremost they came with no documentation whatsoever.  Granted they seem pretty straight forward to install. But if you've never used locking tuners you might be surprised, as I was, that when you loosen the locking screw to put your first string in nothing happens. Loosen the screw completely and the string hole is still occupied. Spend an hour on the internet trying to trouble shoot and come up empty. Finally find a very poorly translated bit of "instructions top locking screw" on the Schaller German website. "Unscrew the knurled screw on the adjusting axis anti-clockwise until the clamping ball comes off". Ball? What f***ing ball?  " Now press the strings against the clamping ball. Under pressure, it recedes. You can now put the guitar string through the adjusting axis." Believe me, I tried to push that string end through a bunch of times before I got to this point. Okay, so if it is a ball in there try pointing the string end up at the very top of the hole.  Finally I can see that it's a spring loaded ball. But it's not going to get out of the way unless you're really pointing the string right at the top of the hole.

But you're not done yet !  It took 4 attempts before that ball in there was able to actually secure the high E string. There is NO room for error there folks. I mean really. A tiny ball to grab a hold of an E string? It just kept slipping. Loosen, pull, tighten, slips. Oh yeah, much faster string change. I can just see being in a dark night club and needing to put on an E string. Better have a back up guitar or your band mates are going to very unhappy with you. It was all I could do to resist the temptation to grab a pair of pliers to hog down on the screw. I have large strong hands and no matter how hard I tried to get it tighter it just seemed to reach a point where it was done, and still slipping. Seems like you have to get the string just right in the center of the hole before you can actually get a lock on it.

This my first experience with locking tuners. Instead of feeling more secure I am more paranoid than ever. Really tempted to sell them for a loss on eBay.

 

[stratamania]

You are the second person in the last couple of days posting a long post as their first post on the forum with a complaint about something.

As you say you have not used locking tuners before. Schallers work very well as do many other brands.

Is there something you want help with?

 

[Cagey]

I think locking tuners are one of the greatest improvements to guitars since steel strings. Even on new instruments, if the tuners aren't lockers, they get replaced immediately, if not sooner. In the last 100 years or so, I use almost nothing but Schallers and have nothing but good things to say about them, so your story is a bit befuddling. What type or model of Schallers did you use?

 

[Verne Bunsen]

I’m also curious which Schallers you are using. I have several sets and have never encountered the difficulties you describe...

 

[swarfrat]

I'm also curious where you bought them. Counterfeiting is pretty rampant these days.

 

[Rick]

I always wonder about this, why complain on an anonymous internet forum before you've contacted the manufacturer or seller?  Locking tuners are awesome.  I'm a hipshot man, but the Schaller's have a great rep.

Take some pics and tell us what the manufacturer or seller says.  Without that, it's just ...

 

[BroccoliRob]

If you're having trouble pushing the string through the ball bearing thingy on the Schallers, fold the end of the string in half and shove the folded corner through. Works great for the high e and b, brosicle.

 

[mayfly]

I think locking tuners are one of the greatest improvements to guitars since steel strings. Even on new instruments, if the tuners aren't lockers, they get replaced immediately...

+1000.  I even have lockers on my acoustic guitars!  :headbang:

 

[atomheart411]

Since the forum title is "Tips and Tricks" I was attempting to leave a tip for the benefit of anyone else who has never used locking tuners before. Most of you all have and so have no need. That's great. I really think that problem with the high E string is something I wish I had known about. Now that I know how they are designed to work getting the strings through is not a problem. I am still on the fence about them but they are a big improvement over locking nuts. That idea of bending the string back on itself is something that came to mind later as a way to get a better grip on the high E straight away. Since I'm a dedicated whammy bar user they're going to stay. Even though they have been around for a while doesn't mean absolutely everyone has tried them. I finally got to this because I just started trying my hand a building guitars. And as the Schaller M6 are the only locking tuners offered by Warmoth I went with them. I don't think they should assume either that absolutely everyone whose buying them has experience with locking tuners either. How much trouble would it be to put a simple one sheet of paper explaing things in the box?

 

[Toulouse_Tuhles]

Never really had the need for locking tuners, but... they have their place.  I got a used neck for free once that had already been prepped for Sperzel tuners. so I got some of those, and ... they worked.
I still like the slotted "Safety Post" tuners best.

 

[stratamania]

Since the forum title is "Tips and Tricks" I was attempting to leave a tip for the benefit of anyone else who has never used locking tuners before.

I re-read your post I am not sure which part of it is a tip.

 

[Cagey]

Warmoth doesn't sell those parts in retail packaging; they're loose pieces so you can mix 'n' match left/right or pick non-standard quantities. They're not a kit supplier or anything like that - they just sell parts to builders and leave it up to them to decide suitability to task or application. That's probably why nothing comes with much in the line of documentation.

For as ubiquitous as locking tuners are these days, you're right - not everyone has seen/used them. I sold a Strat a year or two ago to a guy who was obviously in his 50s and knew his way around a guitar, but he was surprised at the Schallers I had installed on there. Wanted to know how they worked, etc. not having seen such a thing before. He thought they were some "newfangled" thing. Set me back a bit, since they've been around for roughly 40 years or so.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I installed countless locking tuners of various brands including Schallers & have never needed to use any instructions.  If you are already skilled in basic guitar repair & maintenance, this is a stock skill.

 

[atomheart411]

I stand by my previous assessment. These tuners are a waste of money. And Warmoths 10 day return policy is designed to eliminate returns. Maybe if you order every possible part from them you might be able to put everything together before that and stress test everything. But if you have anything resembling an ordinary life with ordinary obligations I'll bet not. Or if you order a part from another vendor and wait an extra week to get that.
      All unwound strings slip with no possble fix. I'm stuck with them so I'll treat them like an ordinary tuner. Wrap the string all the way down. Cross over wrap to lock the string on itself. No way in hell its going to be worse than this. Yeah I use a tremolo bar. Yeah, I use a lot of finger vibrato. All of which should not be an issue. No, I'm not doing EVH dumping the bridge type dives. The lightest bit of tremolo. At a session yesterday I had to tune mid song. It was that bad. The tuners came from Warmoth.

 

[stratamania]

So here is a tip for you.

From Fender

Locking tuning keys. Picture the headcap of the neck as the face of a clock, with the top being 12:00 and the nut being 6:00. Line the six tuning machines so that the first string keyhole is set at 1:00, the second at 2:00, the third and fourth at 3:00, the fifth at 4:00, and the sixth at 5:00. Pull the strings through tautly and tighten the thumb wheel, locking the string in. Now tune to pitch.

https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/articles/212774786-How-do-I-set-up-my-Stratocaster-guitar-properly-

I also find for the high E for example after snugging the thumb wheel and starting to tune the string I snug the thumb wheel just a little more.

So you need to start with the correct string angles and get a feel of how to use them.

 

[AirCap]

You're doing it wrong.

 

[Cagey]

Something is clearly wrong. That's not how Schallers behave. They're excellent tuners that work quite well. I've used dozens of sets of them over the years without issue, and know numerous others who'd use them again without hesitation. Perhaps the parts themselves are somehow defective? The last time I saw symptoms like this were on some Sperzels where the tightening knob had apparently been removed at some point and the internal post that bears on the string to lock it had been lost.

 

[Rick]

This is what works for me.  When inserting the strings into the hole make sure the hole is pointed at where the the string meets the bridge. While holding the string taut, lock the the tuner in place.  There shouldn't be more than about half a turn to get to pitch

Next time I try stratmans method.

 

[TBurst Std]

Hello atomheart

Could you provide a pic of what you are encountering?  I have to believe there is something wrong with them.  While a small forum here, I cannot recall anyone mentioning this on any forum. 

Even here, we have multi 100s of installs of this tuner, plus with restrings, that multiples to many thousands of experiences without the issue you describe. 

With that, got to believe there is something with the ones you have. Have you tried calling the W?

 

[spe111]

Yes, there may be something wrong with the tuners you have. I've had those tuners on a few guitars and it never even occurred to me that anyone would need instructions.