Sanding Back Dyed Alder

[HigherLaws]

Hello all,

I've done my best to do as much reading as I can and hold off on asking questions that have already been answered. As such, I embarked on my first finishing project after doing my research. Nevertheless, I have some questions about a potential hiccup.

I'm working with a two-piece Alder body that I find to be fairly attractive, given the species. Because Alder is not necessarily known for its personality, I sought to add some through using a black dye to bring out the grain pattern. I gave the body a thorough sanding up to 400 after I received it, raised the grain again, then started with low grit and ended up working to 320. From there I wiped in black dye until I got a solid color and then sanded it back using 320 again. This left some black in the grain and brought out a reddish hue, both of which I liked. I've attached a photo.

From there I put down another coat of dye, but this time did a darker brown to match a sweet neck I got from Warmouth. I tested this approach on Alder scrap and ended up with a color and grain pattern that I was happy with. I wanted to mimic that, but when I did a layer of the brown, it accentuated the black more heavily on one side of the body. I realize the two pieces of wood have different character, so you might question my choice, but I'm okay with the grain pattern not being in sync. Now, my plan is to sand this back and hopefully take off some of the dark areas. My question is two-fold: will I be able to get at the dark spots after dying it with brown? And would it be foolish to sand back completely and try to get the left side darker with more black dye?

On my test strip I laid down a base coat of shellac, and it came out nicely but darkened everything up a little more (which is fine). But I want to avoid highlighting the black on the right side even further, so I guess this takes me back to my first question...

I've attached an after pic as well. The lighting is a bit different but you get the idea when it comes to the spots.

 

[Cagey]

Welcome to the forum, Mr. Laws! We have a lotta fun here, as you may have seen by looking around.

Not to spank you right off the bat, but I'm afraid I'm going to be less than supportive of your aims with that body. Alder just doesn't respond well to that kind of treatment. To put it bluntly, you're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Not that Alder is a bad species of wood to use - far from it - but it usually doesn't respond well to stain and/or clear finishes. As that body clearly shows, Alder is almost always better with an opaque finish of some sort. There's little visible grain to begin with, and even when you can see something you'd like to accentuate, it often ends up blotchy overall.

If it were me, I'd be looking at a solid color scheme of some sort that will complement the neck.

 

[stratamania]

I think the only thing you can do is experiment and accept the differences that are there. It's unlikely many have tried what you are attempting who will be able to say this is what to do.

Worst case is you do a lot of work then sand it back a few times till you either get something you like or bale out and go for a solid colour.

 

[dmraco]

I have done transparent on alder but the dye must be sprayed on, not wiped for the reasons you encountered and what has been mentioned  above.  Alder can get blotchy with wipe on dye, even if you do have a highly grained piece. 

If you can sand off color and spray color on you can get any finish you want.

this is alder



so is this

 

[HigherLaws]

Thanks for the input, everyone! And the spanking....well perhaps that was deserved. I'd read that Alder was prone to blotching and in reality that should've prompted me to rethink the process altogether. But, as recommended, I got to experimenting after hours of getting back to square one with a variety of sanders  :sad1: It's hard to believe how deep dye gets into the wood.

Anyway, I learned that my best bet would be to "condition" the wood before I added any color. So I made a #1 cut of dewaxed shellac and denatured alcohol. After I wiped in two coats of that and lightly sanded back, I went ahead and added my color to shellac mix itself, and again, wiped on multiple coats. The process wasn't hard to learn, but it did take some getting used to. Now I can't really say that my process included this consciously, but I found that taking some of the color off in an attempt to even things out with denatured alcohol on a rag really gave me more control. I had to do this due to a couple handling mishaps regardless....

To start I was going for a weathered look and now I feel like I am getting closer to that. There is some grain on the left side of the body that looks lighter than the rest, I can't decide if this is just the wood or my wiping technique. In any case, I've attached the newer version which will probably change in a small way (I went a little past the desired tone).

 

[stratamania]

Well that doesn't look bad at all. Perhaps the darker tone may be what is needed  :dontknow:

 

[Logrinn]

I agree. That looks really good. I've always liked a brown color on guitars. Some gloss on that and I would be extremely proud of that.
Good job!