Refinishing a Warwick Corvette - Grain Filler?

[Dolando]

Hello,

I had a thought that I'd quite like to re finish my Warwick Corvette Standard. It has a natural oil finish with what looks like a brown grain filler. I'm wanting to put on a black grain filler with a lime green stain.

I will be sanding it back to wood, but I doubt ill be able to get all the grain filler out without changing the shape too much.

Can I just go over the brown with the black filler?

Also, I've heard its best to stain, grain fill, stain again, then finish with a clear coat, Does that sound about right?

Thanks,

Adam

 

[Cagey]

Filler sorta relies on an uneven surface to exist, else it gets wiped/sanded off right away. That's what it's for, after all - leveling things out. So, sanding the finish back now that the body's already been filled means you'd have to sand deeper than the filler originally went. That's probably not practical, especially on the more grainy woods like Mahogany or Swamp Ash. It may work better if you sand it back to what you'd consider raw wood, then stain it black, then sand the black off. What's been absorbent during that process will remain black. Hopefully, that'll be the filler. No guarantees, though.

 

[Thelowmax]

I had that issue with a swamp ash bass body. I got a cheap sandblaster at Harbor Frieght Tool Supply for $30. I sanded the finish down to the wood and then sandblasted with baking soda until all the filler was removed from the grain. Here's a shot right after a thinned layer of primer was applied.

 

[Dolando]

I did think about the dye idea, but wasn't sure if that would work or not. The sand blasting isn't a bad idea, might be able to find someone who could do it for me. At least then i have a blank canvas to start again with.

I'm not sure if i can get it sand blasted, so if the dark filler or black dye will go over the top that would be better.

 

[Cagey]

Keep in mind that sand or bead blasting the thing is going to attack the soft spots first, so while that may clear the filler, it might also clear a great deal of what  you don't want to be attacked. The sand/beads/walnut shells are non-discriminatory. Then, once it's done, you'll have a bitch of a time filling in what's left. Could be a long involved process. Whole job sounds like a boner killer to me.

Probably better and maybe even cheaper to start from scratch. Put this one on eBay, and go from there.

 

[Dolando]

Thats a point.

I think its possible. Could I just sand it back so I still have the light brown filler and stain over that? I don't mind if I can't get the black grain filler.

 

[Cagey]

That's what I was suggesting a couple/few posts back. Get it as flat and clean as you can, stain it black, then sand the black off. You won't get all the black off; some low spots almost certainly still exist and will remain black. So, you'd get the effect you're looking for. Finish over that and call it a love story.

 

[Thelowmax]

Keep in mind that sand or bead blasting the thing is going to attack the soft spots first, so while that may clear the filler, it might also clear a great deal of what  you don't want to be attacked. The sand/beads/walnut shells are non-discriminatory. Then, once it's done, you'll have a bitch of a time filling in what's left. Could be a long involved process. Whole job sounds like a boner killer to me.

Probably better and maybe even cheaper to start from scratch. Put this one on eBay, and go from there.

I agree about sand and bead blasting. That's why I used baking soda. It stripped the filler COMPLETELY, but was gentle on the wood.

I painted it 6 coats baby blue and 6 coats white. Then i hand sanded it back to expose the blue. I'ma almost done here

 

[Thelowmax]

Keep in mind that sand or bead blasting the thing is going to attack the soft spots first, .

Keep in mind that the soft part of the wood IS the grain.

 

[Dolando]

For purely ease and lack of tools, I think that the black dye option is the best way to go. The sand blasting could work, but could be tricky to find someone to do, and have absolutely no experience in how to do it.

I may even just sand it back so the brown grain filler is left in and apply the green dye and go for a textured wood effect like it already is and just clear coat it with some Matt laqcuer for a bit of protection. Would that work?

 

[Thelowmax]

Another way to go is to get some paint stripper. One version is called Citri-Strip (but there are others too that are fairly common and most hardware stores will know what I'm talking about). It is an environmentally friendly orange smelling stripper that is applied (some versions come with a paper backing to make it even easier) that when it's done removes all the paint and filler without damaging the wood in any way. I would recommend getting some if you are interested in getting back to bare wood. Any technique you use "will work" depending on how well you follow the directions and what your expectations are. Only you know the answer to the latter. Ultimately, I think it will come out awesome because you are asking these questions before you do the project, instead of wondering later what went wrong. Good job so far

 

[Thelowmax]

The sand blasting could work, but could be tricky to find someone to do, and have absolutely no experience in how to do it.

The guitar body I showed was the first thing I ever soda blasted. I was surprised at how easy it was and have since used it on everything from my rusted fireplace endirons to the engine casings on my motorcycle. It does require an outdoor space as it can be a bit messy but building a blasting box out of a cardboard box was pretty easy too, so smaller things like guitar bodies can be done inside. I realize it's a major step in another direction but I think it's a great tool to have in general that offers another option on many projects. And you can build one from Home Depot parts for next to nothing. Regardless of which way you go, I'ld love to see the final project done. Again, good luck.

 

[stubhead]

Yeah, if you're willing to get messy and smelly, a chemical soak and a wire brush will get everything out pretty easily. You then have to wash it down real well several times with naptha, alcohol or such because that same stripper, if there's any left on the wood, is going to throw a welcoming party for the incoming stain you won't like. The best strippers are the most evil - if they tell you to wear skin protection as well as eyes and speed-load "9-11" before you start, it's good stuff. I see both bubinga and swamp ash variants - obviously the ash will give you better contrast. Bubinga sounds great, but it's sorta like alder - not much zoom for the eyeballs.

 

[Thelowmax]

Yeah, if you're willing to get messy and smelly, a chemical soak and a wire brush will get everything out pretty easily. You then have to wash it down real well several times with naptha, alcohol or such because that same stripper, if there's any left on the wood, is going to throw a welcoming party for the incoming stain you won't like. The best strippers are the most evil - if they tell you to wear skin protection as well as eyes and speed-load "9-11" before you start, it's good stuff. I see both bubinga and swamp ash variants - obviously the ash will give you better contrast. Bubinga sounds great, but it's sorta like alder - not much zoom for the eyeballs.

The reason I recommended the Citri-Strip is because it is not as toxic or offensive (it smells like citrus) as most traditional (caustic) strippers and limits the use of a wire brush*. You apply it evenly then lay a piece of the paper that comes with it over it. The chemical binds with the old paint and the paper which allows you to simply peel it back. Most times this requires only one application. But a second or third coat isn't going to damage the wood either. I used it to strip my swamp ash precision body (right on my dining room table with some newspaper to protect it) and afterwards it only required a wipe and a light sanding. A quick wipe with some paint thinner was all I did to remove any traces.

*A wire brush will really do a job on wood grain if you're not careful. Because the stripper works so well, I use an old toothbrush to clean out the cracks. It's softer than wire and doesn't damage the wood.

Ultimately, you should test a small area to see just how deep you're getting yourself in there. Pickup cavities, rear control panel sockets and such are great test areas that nobody will ever see once it's done.

 

[Dolando]

Wow, some great info there guys. Really appreciate it.

Another way to go is to get some paint stripper. One version is called Citri-Strip (but there are others too that are fairly common and most hardware stores will know what I'm talking about). It is an environmentally friendly orange smelling stripper that is applied (some versions come with a paper backing to make it even easier) that when it's done removes all the paint and filler without damaging the wood in any way. I would recommend getting some if you are interested in getting back to bare wood. Any technique you use "will work" depending on how well you follow the directions and what your expectations are. Only you know the answer to the latter. Ultimately, I think it will come out awesome because you are asking these questions before you do the project, instead of wondering later what went wrong. Good job so far

This is a method that I would have never thought of. Definitely one to look into for this, as well as other possible projects. Cant seem to find it in the UK though.

Experience wise, I have finished a few guitars with nitro lacquer, and used stain for relicing purposes. I plan to test colour and technique on scrap, want be swamp ash, but whatever the closest thing I can find.

Yeah, if you're willing to get messy and smelly....

I dont mind getting messy and smelly!  :laughing7: but ideally I don't want to be using a wire brush etc, just seems too risky.

If I sanded it back, would the stain take to the grain filler? I've ordered a water based black stain as the guy at the shop said its the best thing to use for staining and sanding back to colour the grain. I didn't think to ask if it would also dye what filler was in the wood. I could test a bit in the pickup cavity but that won't have any grain filler in and that's the bit that I'm unsure on...

 

[stubhead]

The grain filler ought to love the dye, it's designed to do just that. If you've got a water-based dye and something like Timber Mate or regular Elmer's wood filler, it's take the dye fine. The only caveat is that, you want to work as dry as you can. Sounds weird, but what I mean is just that the grain filler can be dissolved by water, any water - including the water "carrying" the dye to it's destination. So a big sopping wet rag full 'o' dye isn't the best, use one of those foam brushes or a... finishing pad? No, wait, here's one - it's called an ACE (store) "staining pad!" How apropo...  If you see some lines or blotches, don't freak out and try to "fix" it with water - just keep on.

Lots of thin coats, let them dry in-between. Mix up the dye in a jar or something, but work out of a flat little container. Pour in some mixed dye, and then maybe dilute it even more. Kitchen food storage containers with a snap-on lid are great! But don't go all Viking and "liberate" some, go buy yer own. Any, dollar store or somewhere will have them for a few bucks.  :cool01: What you just want to avoid is ever dipping your working brush into the big batch of dye. And while you're stealing Mom's Tupperware, grab a few coffee filters - you can always run dye, shellac, anything through them if you detect blobs and chunks in where blobs and chunks ought not to be.

 

[Dolando]

Thanks for the information, such a great help. Thought I'd been forgotten.

I have some ready mixed stain, so you advise to water it down further, and keep adding light coats, and build up the black until I get colour I'm after?

Struggling to find a staining pad in the uk for some reason. I found these foam brushes, or would a lint free rag be better?

http://www.tesco.com/direct/rustins-foam-brushes-x4-1-2-3-4in/640-8417.prd?pageLevel=&skuId=640-8417&kpid=640-8417&sc_cmp=ppc_g__&gclid=CObPnLyJo7cCFUXJtAodXykA-Q

Thanks.