Pickups too dang muddy

[Justinginn]

So a friend of mine and I built him a guitar last summer and we're still slowly working to get it to where he wants it (distracted with a ton of other projects). I'm sure there's something funky with his wiring... need to go back through and check for bad soldering connections, which I'm notorious for. But I'm pretty sure that even aside from the wiring the guitar's really really dark sounding. It's a Mahogany SG with a Bubuinga neck, Jazz in the neck, GFS '59 copy in the middle (almost the exact same resistance), and a Super Distortion in the bridge. The neck and middle share a 3-way pickups selector and there's a pushpot that kills the neck and middle and turns on the bridge. I think we've got 500k pots all around and he does have tone controls wired up, one to the neck and middle, one to the bridge, though he's never ever used them. Any ideas on getting his guitar brighter sounding without buying new pickups? Maybe just disconnect the tone pots? Do that Washburn thing where the tone knobs short out one coil of the humbucker, like a variable split to get it a little clearer sounding? Any suggestions appreciated. I really want him to be happier with his guitar. Once we're happy with it, we'll actually post pics. Lol. Thanks guys.

 

[Justinginn]

Guess I totally put this in the wrong section, didn't I. Oops...  :redflag:

 

[tfarny]

I'd probably install no-load tone pots, in case he ever decides to manipulate the tone (they are pretty useful!). That will get you a bit of brightness and maybe more clarity. 1 meg volume pots will get it just a hair brighter still. Angle the bass sides of the pickups away from the strings, not too much but play around with it. Get an EQ pedal or treble booster.
A Jazz pickup should not be over-muddy though, sure it's the guitar and not the rig?

 

[Justinginn]

Yeah the rig sounds great with other guitars, both hum and single-equipped. Actually it sounds pretty good on the bridge pickup so I think something's funky with the Neck/Middle circuit. Really dark, low output... thinking it can't just be out of phase because that'd make it brighter. In series and out of phase? Probably not because putting both pickups on doesn't make it any louder than either just the neck or the middle. Maybe I goofed up the tone pot there. I guess I just need to open 'er up and look for problems, huh?

 

[-CB-]

Any suggestions appreciated.

Apply the KISS treatment

 

[bpmorton777]

hey

1) use the 3way toggle to select between the neck and bridge like a normal 3 way. use the push/pull to turn on and off the  middle pickup. you'll get more pickup combinations and it's not that complicated.
you might have some pots that are still in the signal chain even though the pickup(s) that they control are switched off. this will make it darker sounding.

2) master tone, master volume. doesnt work for everybody but I swear by it. this will clear up the signal a bit as well and when you turn down the vol the signal wont get any darker. you can keep the pots/knobs there for looks or for the push/pull functions but dont have to have them all wired into the thing.

this is what I did with my build.
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=5003.0

Brian

 

[stubhead]

Here is a link to a couple of excellent articles. The first is about pots:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Apr/Confessions_of_a_Pots_Dealer.aspx

I don't know if you have a multimeter, but I have taken to measuring pots, and the values are often way off, towards the low side. If you're using four 500K pots and they're all really 350's, well... The second article is about caps, and what I've drawn from it is that most of the times, people are using caps that are too big. If you want the low end of your tone control to be useful, try using .015's for humbuckers, and .022 or .033's for single coils. The writer goes even lower, by a factor of ten or more.

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Mar/Auditioning_Tone_Capacitors.aspx

Here's a link to ALL the Premier Guitar tech stuff - while away a snowy day sometime.... :hello2:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Category/Tech_Tips.aspx

(hint: you have to re-filter it to "ALL" to get the "all", I guess)

Here's an article on lowering the value of pots, it may be opposite to what you're trying to do, but I've taken to wiring EVERYTHING with 500K pots, knowing that if I overshoot and come out too trebly, I can just add a resistor (gots to leave yourself room for it) :

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/potm.htm

I don't know how much you know about this stuff, it sounds as though something might just be WRONG in there...  :tard:
I grew up playing the four-knob Gibsonesque wiring and I'm a big fan, but Aye, she's a moody & fickle beast at times. If the output levels of the pickups are drastically mismatched, it opens the door to impedance-loading tone hell. One pickup is basically EATING the other one, like baby sharks or spiders.

 

[Rick]

Have you tried it thru different amps?  i had a git like that, and played thru one amp, it sounded like cr@p, while thru another it was great, sometimes it's just the mojo ...  Can you eq at the amp? It might be that's just the way it is.

What is the scale length? The 25.5 will always be brighter, while the 24.75 will always be warmer. 

The only other thing I think of is that there is some sort of mismatch in the pups or in the pots.  Once you've rule out the amp as a problem, the pups, the scale length and mismatched pups and pots, that's it.

Good luck.

 

[Justinginn]

Yeah I mean the amp sounds great and the bridge pickup, for the most part sounds fine. The neck and middle, in any combination sound bad and I'm sure there's something wrong with them because they're both the right pickups for the job and I've heard enough to know they're acting up. Thanks for all your advice guys. I think we might actually ditch the tone knobs because there's no way he'll need to use them. He didn't use them on his old guitar and with three pickups... his switches will do him fine. I just need to get the guitar, a soldering iron and a few hours all at once.  :laughing7:
Neck's 25.5", pickups would be mismatched from either the neck or middle to the Distortion in the bridge but the Jazz and 59 should go well together, definately better than a Jazz/JB which people use all the time. And I know something's up because it's getting that pesky buzzing when you touch the knobs that tells you there's a ground issue. Thanks for your help guys.  I think I'll keep the switching configuration the way I've got it because he's not really into a bunch of options... all he really ever does is hit the switch on the pot for a solo anyway. Hope I can get to it soon and tell yall what was wrong... Lol.

 

[ironeddie]

try re-adjusting the height of the pickups.  I found that .094" is where you are going to get a good balance between power and clarity.

 

[Justinginn]

Thanks for all your help guys. For the next two weeks or so the band's putting together a few setlists so when we get a gig offer we can jump on it and after that we're going back to recording an album (which is how I got him to let me take his guitar in the first place) so once we're working on the album, he'll be fine with me taking it and opening it up so I'll check stuff out then. Thanks for all your suggestions. It really is a cool guitar and I can't wait to post it.