Nylon String Q's

[swarfrat]

You guys that have done nylon string solidbodies. What did you use for tuners? Did you have any special issues?  All of the 6 string builds I see I assume are using standard tuning - but if your tension is off from 'standard' does the volume drop off?  I'm sketching, but I think I want to build my son a 'bass', since he loves it so much. He's a few months away from 2, so I think I'll size it for a little later on, so it'll still be a fun instrument once he 'outgrows it'.  I'm thinking a 4 string nylon stringed instrument using my leftover Graphtech Ghost saddles.  D'Addario makes a 1/2 scale set (EJ27N1/2) so I figure I'll shoot for half scale guitar or about 21".

For a bridge, with the ghost saddles all I really need is a block tapped to hold the intonation screws sunk into the body, and holes for the strings to pass through.  And I'm currently planning to do an 4 string 'octave' pedal circuit  I think I can fit inside the guitar.

Does anyone make classical style tuners that aren't in a 3-block? Did you have to enlarge the holes if you used vanilla steel string tuners? Does any make a classical string set with 4 wound strings?

 

[swarfrat]

Ok, clear head helps search work better. The baritone guys say they can't fit strings through the hole at about 0.068", so no probs there.

There are nylon sets with 4 wound strings. I don't see any particular need to stick to strings sold for half scale so long as cutting doesn't create a problem (unravelling? I know it's an issue for tapewound bass strings.)  Savarez makes a 520 set with a wound G. The heaviest wound classical strings appear to be about 0.045" Apparently wound g's are breakage prone, but I can always tune to whatever fits.

Someting I hadn't considered was ball -ends, or lack thereof. If I use my wilky saddles, I pretty much have to send the strings through the body. But they can tie in the back. 

 

[Steve_Karl]

I, initially, tried Schaller mini locking but it became obvious very quickly that they were cutting the high stings, since I had almost immediate breakage on the b and hi e where the lock bit into the strings.

So I switched to Gotoh SG38 and they're perfect.

I'm using standard tuning. I don't think there would be any volume loss of any consequence dropping the tuning. The graphtec system is very good.

I've found that ball ended nylon strings are pretty useless for my guitar.
I've tried Ernie Ball, Darco and Martin.
The balls pop off almost immediately or only last a few days at best on the hi 3.
I tied the balls from used electric strings onto them to fix.

The Savarez sets that I bought sound and feel great but not for very long. And they're very expensive.
The problem with them was the high ones don't seem to be strong enough to deal with going over a saddle.
They stretch over the break point of the saddle. It's a visible stretch area with the high ones. It's easily visible. The start to sound buzzy after the stretch begins and loose solid tone.

I'm using cheap D'Addario "Classic Nylon" Normal Tension ( EJ27N ) now and they're proving to be the most reliable and last the longest of anything I've tried. They need balls tied onto them but it's getting easier every time and I've developing a tie off method that is working.

 

[swarfrat]

Thanks for that info. I think I might just rout something like a trem cavity and put a bar in the back to tie off to. I need string through anyway, and I need a place to put the bar to hold the wilky saddle intonation screws (the anchor to the body)

I have toyed with the idea of making it a 3 string bass as it solves a number of issues - easy wound strings gauges, narrow nut width (allows a thicker neck profile to still fit small hands), slotted peghead tuners would be easily sourced (not an issue if the gotoh's work) , but I think none of those are serious issues really.

I was sorta thinking no truss rod, being a scratch build for nylon strings. Probably an oak neck through (hard, stiff, I have some).  An 18-20" scale length with typical bass bridge at the butt construction could be a pretty darn compact instrument. A 1.5" spacing at 4 strings is only 1"W, proportional thickness would be about 3/4" thick (mini-fatback) which works out to a planar free dimension.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Sounds cool.
I don't know if you'll be able to get a smooth enough surface on oak for it to feel good.
I've just finished an old park bench repair and I used oak for the slats and I didn't like working with it.
It felt rough even after sanding.

 

[swarfrat]

Someone on TDRP built a couple short scale oak tele's for older kids. http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/211585-trio-tiny-teles.html
As for porousness, epoxy fills all.

My thinking is this is probably going to be a case of "the first prototype that works becomes the first and only production model", so I was thinking about commonly available wood stiff enough to be necks. Yellow Pine and Oak rival Hard Maple in stiffness and density but pine is soft to denting. I'd feel better about trying a pine neck in a full adult size with a hard fingerboard cap. Oak would allow me to make a one piece neck/fingerboard.