Nuts!

[disaster]

I've been struggling with a tuning problem on my China-a-Caster for a while.  I finally altered a Graph Tech Teflon/Tusq pre-slotted nut to fit properly & almost have the problem solved.  Without string trees I can keep the guitar in tune, I'm finally hopeful.  Unfortunately the tone of the D, G, B, & E strings suffer.  The tone is tinny & flat.  If I put the trees on I can fix the tone but I lose the tuning stability.  I have all kinds of trees: Grapth Tech teflon, rollers, steel butterflys, round steel vintage trees.  You name it.  If I use any tree of any kind I lose the tuning stability.

I'm convinced the problem is that the strings are hanging on the tuning key side of the nut but I can't figure it out.  I've tried "rounding" over the nut slot with gauged files but it doesn't seem to help.  I can't adjust the angle of the nut, the slot in the fingerboard pre-determines the angle.  The slots are parallel to the fingerboard (as best as I can tell w/out a microscope).  I tried adjusting the nut slot angle on an earlier nut experiment without any success.  So I don't think I want to re-file the entire nut slot, I just want to prevent the string from hanging on the tuning peg side.

How can I prevent the string from hanging on the tuning side of the nut?  Anyone have a fix for this?

Thanks

 

[Paul-less]

Get a file a give 'er!

You explained exactly what is happening. The extra downward pressure on the nut is pinching the string in the slot. Are you sure that your slots are properly cut? If they are in a V shape, it's only going to get worse... If they are in a U shape, you are good for business, you just need to round off the tuner side of the nut. Not the entire nut, just the slot.

 

[disaster]

Get a file a give 'er!

You explained exactly what is happening. The extra downward pressure on the nut is pinching the string in the slot. Are you sure that your slots are properly cut? If they are in a V shape, it's only going to get worse... If they are in a U shape, you are good for business, you just need to round off the tuner side of the nut. Not the entire nut, just the slot.

The slot is a pre-molded "U" shape.  It's a good shape, perfect for 10s (which is all I play).  I haven't filed the main portion of the slot, just the downward side towards the tuners.

Any special techniques for filing?  How do I figure out how "low" to file the back side (as opposed to depth of slot)?  How do I figure out what angle to file?

Thanks again.

 

[Velcro]

Guitar tech?..

 

[Patrick from Davis]

This works with the white colored nut material (E-yah, this topic and the words used...)  Use a pencil and color the bottom of the slot.  Then file.  You can see where the graphite has been removed.  The left over graphite is a lubricant for the strings anyways.  Then you can take the tuner side of the slot down at a steeper angle so the string does not touch there but you can see where it has been filed.  Also be sure to get all of the material out, fines can be annoying.  I have had them get stuck beneath the strings and cause issues.  It is better just to clean it up right the first time.  Lesson learned.
Patrick

 

[pabloman]

Staggered locking tuners.

 

[Alfang]

Some may disagree with this, but heres how i do a nut,

the slot should point towards the tuner, so that the point that the string settles in the slot is just a small point.

the string should enter the nut and crest at the highpoint on as little material of the nut as possible. the backside( tuner side ) should be opened up a bit, like a funnel sorta.

The problem with strings hanging in the nut is not limited to downward friction, side friction can cause your problem as well.

Filing a nut properly is actually a fine art in itself. It looks easy to do, and it is easy as long as you understand what needs to happen.

The string should only be touching a small portion of the fret side of the nut.  this will help keep the tension from tuner to nut and nut to bridge as close to equal as possible.

Forget the string trees, i have over 12 guitars and none have trees on them. String trees were invented so they could mass produce sloppy nuts

 

[disaster]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I finally have the tuning stable without loss of tone.  I don't like the string trees but without them the strings are flat & tinny.  But I'm good now. :blob7:

Unfortunately I had several guitar "techs" try to solve this and none of them have a clue.  I finally realized I had to fend for myself.  I tried filing a few nuts from scratch with mixed results.  I never solved the tuning problems or matched the fretboard radius so I gave up & went to pre-slotted nuts.

I see what you mean about a "funnel" shape at the back of the nut.  I have a dremmel polishing bit that I think is perfect for this.

But it's all good now.  Yet another lesson I didn't want to learn.

Thanks again kids.