New Fretless build in progress, updated with pics

[SDbass]

'Sup gang! It's been, wow, nearly a decade since my last build.

I bought this neck from the showcase

I am planning for now to use black hardware, and given the weight of the neck, I want to use lighter tuners.  I tentatively plan to use walnut w/ koa lam for the body, which should be heavy enough to not worry about neckdive, but I really hate neckdive so I'm a little paranoid. Plus, it would be a heavy bass anyway with the walnut body, so may as well save some total weight I figure.

I am looking for the smaller V-shaped cloverleaf over the vintage style W-shape if possible.  It's the 17.5 hole.

Besides tuner recs, I want people's thoughts on these choices:

the walnut/koa body

villex single coils (w/Passive tone booster?  Mid booster?)

babisz bridge (black)

I am leaning against the 70's pickup placement because I'm worried it'll be too thin and bright with the body choice and I assume (this would go for any pickup) that the bridge pickup was wired to the sound the creator envisioned at 60s placement, and I don't want to screw with his genius.  I'm open to opinions on this too.

Thanks, guys

 

[amigarobbo]

Babicz is nice, adjusts well, and on the one I building (no Pickups fitted yet) I get good vibrations to the body, acoustic sustain seems good, but as theres' been no other bridge fitted, so comparison not possible. Expensive though.

The very trad looking Gotoh 640s are nice, I don't quite know what you mean by V-shaped cloverleaf, Again, expensive though.

I fitted by purple sparkle fretless with the J-pickup in the 70s position, in retrospect 60s would have been better it's more there to add a bit more bite to the middle bar pickup which it does, but the output is so low and plinkt plunky. You could always add a cap in series to take out some of the bass if you really needed to, Rickenbacker 4001 style.

 

[Sovereign_13]

If I had to guess, these are the "V" shaped tuners we're talking about:

As opposed to these "W" shaped tuners:

The 17.5mm hole is, per Warmoth's site, for the Schaller BML tuners.  I think the BML Lights in black might be what you're looking for, which Warmoth sells:

 

[SDbass]

Thank you both, very much!

Yes, Sovereign is correct about the V vs W I was describing.  Those Schallers look on the money.  Warmoth's website wasn't very clear to me about which tuners would fit -- I'd hate to buy tuners only to find they didn't fit.

Any thoughts on the villex pickups or my choice of body wood?

Is there a cheaper bridge you guys would recommend that's of comparable quality?


Finally, I forgot to mention before, I'm planning on going with the dinky J over the regular J.  My understanding is that there's very little difference, just the dinky is slightly smaller/narrower at the waist.  Is there any functional difference or any considerations as to the dinky vs normal body that I should factor in my decision here?

Thanks, all

 

[SDbass]

Oh, here's another question I have that I can't find an answer to after searching:

I want four knobs (V, V, M, H).  I see in the options for control holes I can get 3 VVT holes, and an input hole...


Should I get all four holes drilled or will the input hole be the wrong size and/or look weird? It seems they're a quarter inch different, but is that something the knob would just cover? Would the pot still fit and work fine? Or is it best to just have the guitar guy who sets it all up drill the fourth hole?

Can the input hole be used the same way as the other holes is what I'm asking.

Thanks again!

 

[Sovereign_13]

First, the boilerplate disclaimer: I am not a bass player.  I don't have any experience with the bridge or pickups you've mentioned.  That said, I can help a little with some stuff.

Here's the Dinky vs Normal J overlay:

As you can see, it's slightly narrower, with a deeper lower horn and a slightly smaller upper horn.  The "waist" is also a little less offset.  Body weight won't be a concern - there's more variance within a single style and wood species than there are differences between the Dinky and Normal designs.  It's even possible to have a normal J Bass body that weighs less than a Dinky, even though they're made of the same wood species.  Both of them look like they average about 4.5lbs for a Swamp Ash body.  With walnut being ~33% denser, I'd expect a walnut J Bass to weigh in about 6 lbs, give or take.  A Koa top will throw that off a little.

I don't personally subscribe to the "tonewood" thing with electric instruments, but koa on walnut will have good mass and should be a pretty striking body.  Make sure you post pictures when you get it!

As for control holes:
Most common 1/4" TS phone jacks (standard input jacks) have the same 3/8" bushings as the potentiometers commonly used in guitar and bass wiring.  As such, you should be able to put a pot where the top-mount input jack would go without any problem.

The side-mounted input jack has a larger hole because it has to accommodate the body of the jack as well, and is usually covered by a plate.  Most here will recommend a 7/8" hole since it will allow you to use either style of jackplate or the Telecaster "Electro-socket" style.

 

[ghotiphry]

I like the Babicz bridges, I have a couple.  I like the Omega more.  And they are cheaper.  I favor the ones with grooved saddles.

With the ultralight tuners in black with the Y keys, you have a couple options.  In the past I've used the Hipshots.  One note on the Hipshots, the bushings are a little small.  What I did to correct this was to wrap some aluminum tape around the bushing to build it up a bit.  Worked just fine.  A word of warning, Hipshot also makes the smaller tuners, make sure you get the larger ones for the 17.5 mm holes.

I've not found body wood choice to be much of a contributing factor to tone, personally, especially over pickup choice.  I have no experience with the Villex pickups.  I also have no experience with the 70s placement.  I've always gone standard.

I also have no experience with a walnut body, sounds heavy?  Have you considered a chambered body?

My experience on the control holes, they are the same size.  Here is something I built that has 4 controls, and the Hipshot ultralights.  I've since changed out the bridge for an Omega.

 

[TenThumbs]

That's a beautiful bass, care to share the details?

 

[ghotiphry]

Sure thing!  Here's the build thread:  http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=26698.0

It's changed a bit, actually.  I changed the neck to a roasted maple/roasted maple one.  The body is quilted maple over chambered swamp ash, and the bubinga neck I had on it to begin was too heavy.  Besides, I liked the roasted maple look.  I've replaced the bridge with an original BadAss II.  The tuners are still Hipshot Ultralights, but I went with the clover keys.  I had the pickup rings custom made for it as well.  Well, so a lot changed, but the meat is still the same, i.e. Fralin pickups and Audere system.  Current photo:

My current Warmoth family (also my computer background  :laughing7: ):

 

[amigarobbo]

Any thoughts on the villex pickups or my choice of body wood?

Is there a cheaper bridge you guys would recommend that's of comparable quality?


Finally, I forgot to mention before, I'm planning on going with the dinky J over the regular J.  My understanding is that there's very little difference, just the dinky is slightly smaller/narrower at the waist.  Is there any functional difference or any considerations as to the dinky vs normal body that I should factor in my decision here?

Thanks, all

I've built a Walnut bodied Dinky P, purpleheart/ebony neck detailed here: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=25536.0 in a Photobucket destroyed thread I'm afraid.


I'd recommend the dinky J to reduce the weight, and give a slightly more modern less chunky look.

It's very quiet acoustically, and it's got a 'hard' sound, little bloom to the note, responsive, but that's probably due to the fact I read this: http://www.alembic.com/info/wood_body.html and have subconsciously become to believe it.  :cool01:

 

[SDbass]

I like the Babicz bridges, I have a couple.  I like the Omega more.  And they are cheaper.  I favor the ones with grooved saddles.


With the ultralight tuners in black with the Y keys, you have a couple options.  In the past I've used the Hipshots.  One note on the Hipshots, the bushings are a little small.  What I did to correct this was to wrap some aluminum tape around the bushing to build it up a bit.  Worked just fine.  A word of warning, Hipshot also makes the smaller tuners, make sure you get the larger ones for the 17.5 mm holes.


I've not found body wood choice to be much of a contributing factor to tone, personally, especially over pickup choice.  I have no experience with the Villex pickups.  I also have no experience with the 70s placement.  I've always gone standard.

I also have no experience with a walnut body, sounds heavy?  Have you considered a chambered body?

My experience on the control holes, they are the same size.  Here is something I built that has 4 controls, and the Hipshot ultralights.  I've since changed out the bridge for an Omega.

This helps a ton, I think I will take your advice on the bridge. Gotoh 201 mount?

As for the chambered body, the idea actually appeals to me.  I'm fine with any weight of bass and I mostly play sitting down anyway, but I like feeling resonance through a guitar, it helps me tune.  So a chambered body would be cool.  My worry is that, like you had with your bass, the exotic hardwood neck will want to dive if I cut all that wood out of the body.  If I knew it'd be balanced I would do it.

 

[ghotiphry]

Yes, the Omega uses the Gotoh 201 rout.

The quilt maple is chambered swamp ash, which is naturally lighter.  I'm wondering if chambered walnut wouldn't be still heavier and balance it all out. I don't know, however.

 

[SDbass]

Yes, the Omega uses the Gotoh 201 rout.

The quilt maple is chambered swamp ash, which is naturally lighter.  I'm wondering if chambered walnut wouldn't be still heavier and balance it all out. I don't know, however.

I did some math with the weight difference between walnut vs swamp ash and I do agree that a chambered walnut body would probably be fine..  Let me ask: how neck heavy was your bass with the bubinga neck?  Because if it was only slight even with the ash body, then walnut should be no problem.  But if it was dramatic, then I'd probably not do it. It seems to me with an exotic hardwood neck you need to have a somewhat heavy body.

On the plus side, my neck is slim cut and with graphite truss. 

 

[ghotiphry]

Well, it was enough that it wasn't that comfortable.  However, I moved the neck to another body that was a pound heavier and it was fine.  It's on the natural flame, furthest left.  The quilt was just over four pounds naked.  The flame was just over five.

 

[SDbass]

OK thanks guys! I ended up going with a chambered body.  Went with the BA3 string thru bridge route and got the hipshot A style fender mount 2 bridge (I also decided to add the ghost piezo system to it)

I'm pretty excited -- it's going to be a tough few months of waiting!

 

[ghotiphry]

Congrats SDbass!  Make sure to do a build thread!

 

[SDbass]

Neck came  arty07:

Everything else should be arriving within the next couple weeks, except the body which isn't due till Dec/Jan.  The waiting is the toughest part!  Neck feels amazing as is, still going to give it the "burnishing" treatment.


I was going to use a polishing sandpaper on the fretboard, but it's already so smooth and even though the polishing paper hardly removes any wood, is there any risk of creating dead spots polishing a fretless fretboard with 3000+ grit paper?

 

[Cagey]

Oddly enough, "polishing" papers don't seem to have a great deal of effect on wood. They don't cut the same way they do on harder materials. Even given the same grit, the results will be dramatically different. For what they cost, you probably want to save them for other things. Like frets. Which you don't have.

If you wanna polish up the surface of the fretboard, I'd recommend doing the same thing you do burnishing the neck meat. It removes very little wood. I mean, it barely creates any dust. I can't imagine it creating any "dead" spots on the 'board. Also, I don't think you need to go past 2000 grit. Even the densest wood grain isn't that fine, so going farther than that is just wishful thinking. Keep in mind that the finer the paper, the less it cuts, so you have to spend a lotta time to get the full benefit of it. Once you do, you'll find that at 2000 grit, the neck is so slick you'll wonder if it's even wood.

 

[SDbass]

Oddly enough, "polishing" papers don't seem to have a great deal of effect on wood. They don't cut the same way they do on harder materials. Even given the same grit, the results will be dramatically different. For what they cost, you probably want to save them for other things. Like frets. Which you don't have.

If you wanna polish up the surface of the fretboard, I'd recommend doing the same thing you do burnishing the neck meat. It removes very little wood. I mean, it barely creates any dust. I can't imagine it creating any "dead" spots on the 'board. Also, I don't think you need to go past 2000 grit. Even the densest wood grain isn't that fine, so going farther than that is just wishful thinking. Keep in mind that the finer the paper, the less it cuts, so you have to spend a lotta time to get the full benefit of it. Once you do, you'll find that at 2000 grit, the neck is so slick you'll wonder if it's even wood.

I already have 400-5000 grit sandpaper, not having to go past 2000 is great because yeah that stuff takes forever.  Are you saying you think a little fine polishing of the fretboard is a good idea?  I know ebony can take on a glass-like finish after a fine sanding, and it seems to me that would be a nice feel on a fretless but I don't know and I'm not inclined to do anything without asking here first.

Thanks for all the help!

Also I added pics of the neck

 

[Cagey]

I did a black Ebony neck recently before I fretted it. I should have taken pictures. But, I'm not sure it would have eased your fears. It was getting stainless frets and those were going to be leveled to within a gnat's eyelash. As pretty as it looks and as sublime as it feels, the real concern on fretless necks is that they don't have any hills/valleys in them. The slightest variation can cause problems. But, seriously: unless you go apeshit with the coarser grits in a concentrated area, you've got nothing to worry about. Once you get to the finer stuff, you're not changing the plane of the surface at all. If I were doing a fretless, I wouldn't hesitate. Burnish it, and make everybody envious.