New Forum Member, 2nd time Warmoth Builder, introducing my new build

[maxahills]

Hello everyone,  :turtle:

Just wanted to introduce myself on here. I'm new to this forum and to forum-ing in general. In fact, most of the time in the past when I entered forum communities for random questions on cars, software, etc., my posts got ignored or flamed. So this time, I am doing it different; entering into the community instead of being a random poster.

Knowing that I have a bit of an obsessive personality.. where I tend to obsess over things a bit much until I accomplish them, I figured it was time to obsess again on some gear as it is a much less stressful obsession than building up my law firm. (which has taken me out of the guitar world for a couple years now).

Now, I want a Mooncaster. I had a PRS in the past and loved it, but in my recording days I sold it for a Les Paul. I also played a friends CS-336 a few years back and loved it. Last year, I saw John Mayer with Dead & Co. and am obsessed with his Super Eagle. However, I have a 10 month old baby to send to college in 17 years and 2 months, so $10k on a guitar is not a great move. Therefore, I want to build a Mooncaster and mimic the electronics of the Super Eagle.

So I have a few questions for the community:

1. Would Warmoth entertain custom request for the body below? If I requested routing for an additional Narrowfield pickup in the middle?

2. What about Active Mods? There is no option here for a battery Hole. Would that ruin the integrity of this type of semi hollow/chambered body?

3. Has anyone seen a wiring diagram for the Super Eagle? I cant find one on PRS's site so I cant figure out exactly what parts and mods are even on there.

4. For those who know these guitars and Warmoth, what problems do you foresee?

:rock-on:
____
Body:

Right Handed
Core Wood - Roasted Swamp Ash$490.00
Laminate Top - Zebrawood/Mahogany$0.00
Rear Rout
F-Holes
2 F-Holes

Humbucker (Wood Mount) More Info
Humbucker (Wood Mount) More Info


Toggle (Mooncaster)
Volume 1 (Mooncaster)
Volume 2 (Mooncaster)
Tone 1 (Mooncaster)
Tone 2 (Mooncaster)
Lower Horn Toggle (Mooncaster)

TOM/STP, Angled Pocket

3/4" (19mm) Side Jack Hole

Neck Pocket
Strat® Shape

Mounting Holes
Standard 4 Bolt


Contoured Heel

Binding
Ivoroid Binding

Finish
Black-Red-Yellow Burst$260.00
Back Finish - Black-Red-Yellow Burst$0.00

Finish Type:
Satin Finish
__________

 

[BigSteve22]

Welcome to the forum, Max. Best way to see if an option might be available is to call Warmoth and ask. They're pretty friendly, and willing to answer questions and explain availability. Good luck with your build.

:icon_thumright:

 

[vid1900]

Even if Warmoth did not want to rout the pickups, it would be an easy job for any local luthier

 

[rgand]

Welcome to the forum, Maxahills. You're in a good forum here. I don't recall seeing any flaming from anyone. You ask questions and you get answers. Pure and simple helpfulness. while you're progressing, you also get encouragement. As Bigsteve22 suggested, a simple phone call will get many options that aren't listed on the Warmoth site.

This is a great place to haunt. But, if you start to miss being flamed, there are a couple forums I can recommend...  :icon_biggrin:

 

[maxahills]

Thank you for the welcome replies, etc. I will have to give them a call to see. I am confident they would do it as it is nothing too crazy, just a narrow middle pick up that I can provide exact specs on.

:band:

 

[rgand]

Thank you for the welcome replies, etc. I will have to give them a call to see. I am confident they would do it as it is nothing too crazy, just a narrow middle pick up that I can provide exact specs on.

:band:

You may have to do with one of their existing routes. That kind of special work requires a lot of expensive CNC program changes.

 

[stratamania]

Welcome to the forum.

Wouldn't a VIP be closer to a PRS though than a Mooncaster ?

On the wiring I see someone posted a layout of what the thing has, but if you have a list of what the switching is meant to do I dare say one or more of us could help figure out a wiring scheme.

Of course I would say you have almost 18 years at least if a gap year is figured in to enjoy a Super Eagle and sort out a college fund.  Thats less than $11 a week over that time for that Super Eagle and it will still be worth something so it isnt money gone. 

Think about it you probably spend more than that a week on Starbucks or other such things. Buy a Super Eagle and drink water instead. Better health and more guitar enjoyment whats not to like ?

Think big...find a few more clients etc and its even easier  

Edit, that is less than $ 1.60 a day. I might have just sold myself a more modest PRS

 

[Fat Pete]

...Knowing that I have a bit of an obsessive personality.. where I tend to obsess over things a bit much until I accomplish them...

You'll fit right in here my friend, welcome!

Good luck with the Mooncaster build.

 

[Kostas]

Welcome.

It doesn't hurt to ask but as far as I know Warmoth won't do what you are asking. Especially on the Mooncaster, just yesterday they added a few more options after years of introducing it.

Partcasters are fun, especially when you have a vision for something unique. I feel though what you are trying to do won't be close to the Super Eagle. You'll be better with a small builder who builds according to the customers needs. It won't be cheap but nowhere near the price of the Super Eagle.

For the wiring diagram you can ask in a PRS forum, I know two of them. There are members who visit the factory often and know many of the stuff so maybe someone knows, the S.E. is a new and ltd guitar.

 

[maxahills]

Welcome to the forum.

Wouldn't a VIP be closer to a PRS though than a Mooncaster ?

On the wiring I see someone posted a layout of what the thing has, but if you have a list of what the switching is meant to do I dare say one or more of us could help figure out a wiring scheme.

Of course I would say you have almost 18 years at least if a gap year is figured in to enjoy a Super Eagle and sort out a college fund.  Thats less than $11 a week over that time for that Super Eagle and it will still be worth something so it isnt money gone. 

Think about it you probably spend more than that a week on Starbucks or other such things. Buy a Super Eagle and drink water instead. Better health and more guitar enjoyment whats not to like ?

Think big...find a few more clients etc and its even easier  

Edit, that is less than $ 1.60 a day. I might have just sold myself a more modest PRS

I have to say that we do the exact same financial rationalization calculations. I do this nearly every day for myself when justifying for myself... or talking clients into taking a settlement.

Very clearly, the VIP is a PRS, so I totally agree there. I feel like a hollow Mooncaster will be able to capture the same things as a McCarty (hollow VIP) style guitar and also do some things that it cannot do like a more 335-y sound. Thoughts?

Another driving factor is that I love the look of Mooncaster + PreCBS strat headstock. The thing about PRS for me was that it looks so... aggressive.. as if I am going to need spiked hair, Korn T shirt, and a chain wallet to match it. (Personal Opinion).

I guess one issue here is that I have not had the chance to play any Mooncaster guitars so I cant be sure it can do what I want it to before hand, but I do not see why not.

After reading KOSTAS comments, it may be that Warmoth cant/wont add additional routing spots in there. I will ask anyway. If not, I already know & admit that I do not have the skills/tools/guts to rout a pickup spot myself. That then would change my build plan a bit.

Considering, the S.E. is super versatile and sophisticated. Considering that I have a collection of guitars and do not play live anywhere right now where I need to be able to switch from Strat to LP to JerryMachine in the same 18 minute Jam..... maybe I settle for something a tiny less capable and alot more build-able.

Another issue I am running into is .. Active Mods. Certainly something I know little about and the one they put in the super eagle is not available for purchase as it is custom for PRS. GREAT!  That rationalization to just buy a Super Eagle is sounding better and better.

 

[vid1900]

After reading KOSTAS comments, it may be that Warmoth cant/wont add additional routing spots in there. I will ask anyway. If not, I already know & admit that I do not have the skills/tools/guts to rout a pickup spot myself. That then would change my build plan a bit.

Don't let this tiny detail hold up your dream guitar.

Lots of us guitar builders used to rout out pickup holes before there were easily available CNCed plastic guides that are available now.  Really easy/simple to do. 

Any guitar shop can rout those holes for you.  First hole is usually $25, and any additional holes are $15.

Considering, the S.E. is super versatile and sophisticated.  ..... maybe I settle for something a tiny less capable and alot more build-able.

There is nothing crazy sophisticated about the Super Eagle electronics or pickups.

Think how simple it actually is, once you break it down.

1.  You have the usual 5-way switch that chooses the pickup combination.

2.  You have 3 switches that choose between Single and Double coil for the humbuckers.

3.  You have a Treble Boost switch.

4.  You have a ON/OFF switch

5.  You have the usual Volume and Tone knob.

That's it. 

All of this can be done with just common, off the shelf parts. 

I would make it even more versatile by adding a 2nd tone knob and make the Treble Boost sweepable.  This is an easily done option with a  $49 pre-amp circuit. 

Another issue I am running into is .. Active Mods. Certainly something I know little about and the one they put in the super eagle is not available for purchase as it is custom for PRS. GREAT!  That rationalization to just buy a Super Eagle is sounding better and better.

There are 100s of active guitar preamps available.  95% of them are MORE versatile than the Eagle's.

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Onboard-Preamp-Clapton-Mid-Boost-Brian-May-Treble-Boost-Clean-Gain_p_571.html

 

[maxahills]

After reading KOSTAS comments, it may be that Warmoth cant/wont add additional routing spots in there. I will ask anyway. If not, I already know & admit that I do not have the skills/tools/guts to rout a pickup spot myself. That then would change my build plan a bit.

Don't let this tiny detail hold up your dream guitar.

Lots of us guitar builders used to rout out pickup holes before there were easily available CNCed plastic guides that are available now.  Really easy/simple to do. 

Any guitar shop can rout those holes for you.  First hole is usually $25, and any additional holes are $15.

Considering, the S.E. is super versatile and sophisticated.  ..... maybe I settle for something a tiny less capable and alot more build-able.

There is nothing crazy sophisticated about the Super Eagle electronics or pickups.

Think how simple it actually is, once you break it down.

1.  You have the usual 5-way switch that chooses the pickup combination.

2.  You have 3 switches that choose between Single and Double coil for the humbuckers.

3.  You have a Treble Boost switch.

4.  You have a ON/OFF switch

5.  You have the usual Volume and Tone knob.

That's it. 

All of this can be done with just common, off the shelf parts. 

I would make it even more versatile by adding a 2nd tone knob and make the Treble Boost sweepable.  This is an easily done option with a  $49 pre-amp circuit. 

Another issue I am running into is .. Active Mods. Certainly something I know little about and the one they put in the super eagle is not available for purchase as it is custom for PRS. GREAT!  That rationalization to just buy a Super Eagle is sounding better and better.

There are 100s of active guitar preamps available.  95% of them are MORE versatile than the Eagle's.

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Onboard-Preamp-Clapton-Mid-Boost-Brian-May-Treble-Boost-Clean-Gain_p_571.html

Thank you for the tips here, but also for the encouragement! I had looked briefly at the Fender Active stuff and it looked decent. Wasnt sure how doable it would be so I didnt spend tons of time. Now I will. I also looked into EMG active stuff. I know they are marketed mostly towards the shredder metal realm, I dont see why it would be exclusively useful.

I like your adventure on adding additional mods. There are some good guitar shops locally as I am in Newport Beach California. which has plenty of great surrounding shops (Especially inland towards tustin and fullerton) and also 50 mins from Los Angeles which is a mecca of guitars.

Now, I need to hit the drawing board to see how I can lay out the controls.

 

[stratamania]

Hi Maxahills, got it on the reasons for the mooncaster shape.

For the pickups they themselves appear to me to me to be passive in the Super Eagle, a body routed for an HSH configuration would get you close. Then a pair of humbuckers and a single coil size humbucker or similar in the middle position.

The treble boost on further reading is a treble boost preamp type circuit built into the guitar. But unless I am mistaken the pickups themselves are not active such as EMGs are. About 40 odd years ago my brother made a treble boost pedal for me and it was simple and cheap to make as I recall. The Super Eagle would appear to have a treble boost pedal as it were built into the guitar.

I think a lot of us when we start contemplating something we might look to make for the first time do take into account various inspirations. Nothing wrong with that, but later we might look to simplify or have the features across a couple of guitars.

For pickup versatility you might also want to look at Seymour Duncan triple shots with P rails. (The triple shot is a humbucker mounting ring with switching built into it, the P rails is a humbucker, P90, single coil type of proposition built into a humbucker size option. I have added a link that will describe them a little more.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/product-news/p-rails-now-available-with-triple-shots

Perhaps they may give some options in routs that are available on the mooncaster and give a large amount of veratility.

Some of the other members on the forum have used the P Rails, so could probably add how they find them.

 

[maxahills]

The treble boost on further reading is a treble boost preamp type circuit built into the guitar. But unless I am mistaken the pickups themselves are not active such as EMGs are. About 40 odd years ago my brother made a treble boost pedal for me and it was simple and cheap to make as I recall. The Super Eagle would appear to have a treble boost pedal as it were built into the guitar.

The pickups are passive on the SE and I think that the boost on the SE is active. My comment about EMG was not about the pickups, but about their MODs. They have a number of passive and active mods available on their site and I thought some of them sounded pretty similar to the Fender versions. Considering that they seem to focus on pickups and mods, particularly active ones, I wonder if they have a better product than the Fender stuff.


The PRails Idea sounds awesome. I am going to watch some more videos on them and see. From the one you posted, they sound very dynamic.  :yourock:


Also, I agree with simplifying and spreading out the collection to encompass different sounds on different guitars. In fact, that has been my philosophy over the 25 years I have been collecting. In truth, if you have a strat, tele, 335, and LP... you can get close to every tone you'll ever need.

But for this particular build, I am looking for something to fill the uber versatile PRS style guitar void. I dont like the look of the PRS much, but have to say that what you can do with that guitar is pretty special in that you can go through an entire set list including Zepp, Hendrix, Whomever covers.. and get pretty close to the tone with a McCarty.  :guitarplayer2:


The current collection includes:

Warmoth Build Strat
Tele
Les Paul
Rickenbacker 12 string
Martin D41
Gibson Jumbo

I have narrowed the collection down quite a bit over the years as I was working as a pro in my early 20s and actually needed the guitars then. It is more probable than not that I will continue to grow this collection.

For Fender Style guitars, I have made a decision that I will never buy a production model again. I believe that the ones I build (more like design and put together) are far superior to what is out there for my needs and taste. With Gibson style guitars, I feel opposite. (For the record, I believed this with conviction before I wrote it out.. now it sounds really dumb with regard to the Gibson part).  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[vid1900]

I was at GC and the manager asked how I've been.

Vid: Does anyone actually buy this stuff? [pointing to the $8K Gibson on the wall]

Manager:  That?? I mean no actual player buys that stuff.  Some attorney or dentist will buy it and hang it on the wall of their office. 

V:  Really?

M:  Yep.  They will pull it down and strum across the open strings about twice a year. 

V:  That's funny.

M:  Totally true.  I can look up the account of any customer who buys those big ticket guitars, and they never have bought anything else.  No strings, no picks, no cables, no replacement knobs.  Nothing. 

 

[stratamania]

On the EMG part. Yes they have things that will work with both passive or active pickups.

There is for example the AB Boost or AB220 that gives different levels of boost. It would still need a battery to power one of these.  Or you could use also something like the EXG with passive pickups.

 

[maxahills]

So I am still planning out this Mooncaster/SE Frankenstein and I want to use a Straw (Pre CBS or Jazzmaster head/neck.  This will have inline tuners.

At the same time, I want a hard tail bridge, probably a Gibson style bridge AB1 or something.

Has anyone here had issues with an AB1 bridge strung into in-line tuners? I would not imagine so, but that is why this forum is here Just wanted to make sure that was not a hurdle.



:rock-on:

 

[Cagey]

In-line tuners are a Good Thing. I've never heard of any problems using an AB1-style bridge with them. Can't even imagine how there could be. The issue I usually have with AB1s is that too often the break angle over them is so severe that it kinks the strings at the point they cross the saddle and causes tuning instability. The string doesn't want to stretch past its kink point, or wants to relax back into it. It's particularly vexing on the G string, which is more sensitive to small changes in tension. But, that's usually a setup issue that can be adjusted out. People are obsessed with breakover angles, figuring if some is good, then more is better and too much is just right.

 

[stratamania]

Should not be a problem at all, the break over angles of the strings at the bridge end are usually solved on F type guitars by recessing the bridge so it sits lower to the body or by putting in an angle into the neck pocket.