My first build turned out to be a fail. What are my options?

[barber76]

Standard strat. Alder body with modern roasted maple neck. Technically the build seems impeccable, the neck fits the body like a glove, and playability is great, but one defect is quickly becoming a showstopper for me:

something is very wrong with the way 3rd string resonates when fretted from 12 to 18 frets. Some weird overlapping vibrations become noticeable at 12th fret, by the 14-15 it is so bad, that sustain is basically gone, and after the 18th fret goes back to norm. Any kind of overdrive emphasizes it even more.

Had it checked by professional luthier. He can not advice anything, other than try attaching different weights to the neck, which I tried without success.

What are my options? Another neck? Or another body? Avoid roasted maple? Or avoid modern construction? I doubt it is a warranty case, as I can not point to anything literally wrong with the parts.
I'm sad and angry, 12-18 fret is where most of the soloing is happening.  :sad1:

 

[Rick]

Bring it to a luthier who can give you sensible advice.  There’s a thread on here somewhere on finding a good tech.

 

[vetteman]

I would recommend doing some reading on how to properly set up a guitar if you are not already familiar with the process.  Some new necks do require a fret level to play their best, or your neck may need to be shimmed.  Your experts' advice on attaching weights sounds like pure hokum to me, so seek out a second opinion.  It is probably not quite time to fall on your own sword yet! :sad1:

 

[barber76]

I know how the buzz from unleveled frets sounds, it is not it. And understand it is easy to assume the issue is caused by the bad setup, as it is indeed often the case. I really do not think it is the case here. Setup and playability is great. To me it is indeed sounding like a few "overtones" over the main note which are messing with it. Not even too noticeable during "normal" play, if I don't spend more than a second at the mentioned danger zone.
But driving me insane, because I'm aware of it, and I hate the idea that I must avoid any long vibrato etc. there.

 

[bruzanhd]

Do you have string trees? You could be getting a sympathetic vibration at the headstock. You could also be getting a sympathetic vibration from the trem springs. Maybe even something wonky with the saddles? All that is if you’re sure it’s not frets. Maybe try and raise the action a whole bunch to see if that changes anything. That would rule out frets.

 

[stratamania]

From your description, it sounds like a probable manifestation of stratitis. Could you try lowering the height of the pickups to see if it goes away.

If it does go away you would then raise the pickups till the overtones come back and then lower them below that.

Stratitis is caused by too much magnetic pull from a pickup on a string or strings causing it to vibrate in a way that produces different overtones that are dissonant.

 

[alexreinhold]

What stratamania said. Alternatively, it could be a combination of bridge and truss rod settings. But that's impossible to say from afar. I'm 99.9% sure a luthier can fix this - if you go to a non-esoteric one next time ;-)

 

[BeagJon]

I know how the buzz from unleveled frets sounds, it is not it. And understand it is easy to assume the issue is caused by the bad setup, as it is indeed often the case. I really do not think it is the case here. Setup and playability is great. To me it is indeed sounding like a few "overtones" over the main note which are messing with it. Not even too noticeable during "normal" play, if I don't spend more than a second at the mentioned danger zone.
But driving me insane, because I'm aware of it, and I hate the idea that I must avoid any long vibrato etc. there.

This may be an entirely separate issue, but the stainless steel frets on my bass neck are NOISY. Hammer ons sound much smoother, but by that same effect even when fretting say the 18th fret, I'll still hear noise from the string striking between the nut and 18. My other bass necks wouldn't pronounce these frequencies at all.

That said, as soon as the amp's up loud enough this artifact is gone. The excess noise in my build is not amplified.

 

[Logrinn]

First of all I think you should change the string. It’s not uncommon to get a string that behave bad with strange overtones as a result.
Second, make sure to try and dampen the string behind the fretted note, ie with a fretwrap or similar. Sympathetic tones between the sounded part of the string and the part behind the fret (between the nut and the fretted note) can also cause unwanted sounds.
Third, make sure the side adjustment screw isn’t loose causing unwanted sounds.

 

[mayfly]

I'm with stratamania:  It sounds like a case of stratitis. 

Try lowering your pickups as much as possible and see if it goes away.

 

[Sadie-f]

I'd agree with stratmania &  Mayfly, except your photo looks to show fairly low-set neck & middle pickups. However a good check on this might be to play the harmonic at the 12th string and see if that also has low sustain -- string higher. That could also be a good diagnostic for finding the source.

OP started building this instrument in summer 2019 and finished march '20, and reported this back then also. I'd suggest record a sample, clean amp settings, no effects, and on each pickup. What you're describing sounds like the reverse of what I understand to be a wolf tone, e.g. where the fundamental frequency of air and body of an acoustic are at say 110, 220 Hz respectively and will make the A string quite a lot louder. Close but not exact resonances will affect tuning and the heard note at various points of sustain / signal decay.

Also, do the same notes, played on the adjacent #2, 4 strings have the same sound? If it's instrument resonance, then that's what you should hear.

My Stratocaster has an annoying buzz when playing string 3 unfretted to about the 5th fret and the same notes played on 4th string. I never worried about it because I bought that guitar knowing I would replace the neck with a MusiKraft @ 1-3/4" nut.

I suspect it's caused by vibration of the truss rod, and the replacement has just a hint of something similar, however it's below my don't-care threshold, and that neck has long since been moved to my W-strat build, the Fender with it's original neck still has that vibration.

My Martin OM has a pretty dead ring when playing the 6th string between the 2nd - 4th frets, it's being caused by the fundamental resonance of the body. The thing is, it's extremely hard to build an acoustic guitar that sounds perfect at all tones.

 

[barber76]

Do you have string trees? You could be getting a sympathetic vibration at the headstock. You could also be getting a sympathetic vibration from the trem springs. Maybe even something wonky with the saddles? All that is if you’re sure it’s not frets. Maybe try and raise the action a whole bunch to see if that changes anything. That would rule out frets.

No string trees. Staggered hipshot tuners, which work great.
Can't comment on trem springs/saddles, but... Trem is a trem. It holds in tune great, I don't think there's anything else I can demand from its setup.

 

[barber76]

I'm with stratamania:  It sounds like a case of stratitis. 

Try lowering your pickups as much as possible and see if it goes away.

Thanks for the advice, stratamania , Mayfly ! I'll play with pickups height and see.

 

[barber76]

I'd agree with stratmania &  Mayfly, except your photo looks to show fairly low-set neck & middle pickups. However a good check on this might be to play the harmonic at the 12th string and see if that also has low sustain -- string higher. That could also be a good diagnostic for finding the source.

OP started building this instrument in summer 2019 and finished march '20, and reported this back then also. I'd suggest record a sample, clean amp settings, no effects, and on each pickup. What you're describing sounds like the reverse of what I understand to be a wolf tone, e.g. where the fundamental frequency of air and body of an acoustic are at say 110, 220 Hz respectively and will make the A string quite a lot louder. Close but not exact resonances will affect tuning and the heard note at various points of sustain / signal decay.

Also, do the same notes, played on the adjacent #2, 4 strings have the same sound? If it's instrument resonance, then that's what you should hear.

My Stratocaster has an annoying buzz when playing string 3 unfretted to about the 5th fret and the same notes played on 4th string. I never worried about it because I bought that guitar knowing I would replace the neck with a MusiKraft @ 1-3/4" nut.

I suspect it's caused by vibration of the truss rod, and the replacement has just a hint of something similar, however it's below my don't-care threshold, and that neck has long since been moved to my W-strat build, the Fender with it's original neck still has that vibration.

My Martin OM has a pretty dead ring when playing the 6th string between the 2nd - 4th frets, it's being caused by the fundamental resonance of the body. The thing is, it's extremely hard to build an acoustic guitar that sounds perfect at all tones.

Yep, the build is relatively old. I tried to live with it, but can't... Reverting to my other guitar all the time instead.
I'll try to do a sound samples this weekend, before messing with pickups height. As for 2nd/4th strings, no, I don't notice such pronounced artifacts on them. Only 3rd.

 

[barber76]

Before I record my own sound samples, I found a video demoing similar (or maybe same?) issue to experienced by me. Also, it is on 3rd string, with adjacent 2nd and 4th being Ok:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/Lv3j1GgHulM[/youtube]

 

[TBurst Std]

Sounds like stratitis to me.  You even see the neck pup sitting proud in that video.  Typically the neck pup is barely above the pickguard.

 

[barber76]

Sounds like stratitis to me.  You even see the neck pup sitting proud in that video.  Typically the neck pup is barely above the pickguard.

Well, this is not my video. Just something I found which seems similar. Just for the record, attaching photos of my pups.
But I will record sound samples and play with pickups height, as promised. I invested too much into parts to just throw it away.

 

[Lbpesq]

After viewing the video, I understand your luthier suggesting adding a weight.  This is an old trick to deal with a dead spot on a neck.  There are even commercially available clamps designed for this purpose.  As I recall, I’ve seen it mostly on basses.

Bill, tgo

 

[mayfly]

Sounds like stratitis to me.  You even see the neck pup sitting proud in that video.  Typically the neck pup is barely above the pickguard.

Well, this is not my video. Just something I found which seems similar. Just for the record, attaching photos of my pups.
But I will record sound samples and play with pickups height, as promised. I invested too much into parts to just throw it away.

Looking at the photos, I think it's pretty clear the problem is stratitis.  You need to lower those pickups till they are on the deck.

BTW, if you are going to throw it away, throw it my way! 

 

[TBurst Std]

Thanks for the pic. As there is no true measurement reference in it, they all appear high.
I say deck them all, and see if the issue persists.
I have low-med output pups in my strat. Measurements from the pickguard face to the top of the pup cover are:

NECK
E 1/32
e 2/32

MIDDLE
E 2/32
e 3/32

BRIDGE
E 3/32
e 3 to 4 /32 (technically 7/64)

If you pups are stronger than low-med output, lower heights may help.