Les Paul Special (double cut)?

cromulent

Senior Member
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Curious why Warmoth doesn't offer a LP Special doublecut body? Seems like a great compact, flat, LP control layout body. Velocity checks a lot of the same boxes but no LP controls. How much of a PIA would it be for me to shape a body blank?

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Is that same quality as warmoth? I suspect I’d rather just order a body blank from warmoth and do the rest myself.
 
Is that same quality as warmoth? I suspect I’d rather just order a body blank from warmoth and do the rest myself.
It's very high quality stuff. On par with Warmoth for sure. I've built an LP Jr from precision and it turned out really great. Of course, I had Tonar put a fantastic burst on it...
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And the Guitar on the right is the Transcontinental Tele (started in the US, went to Brazil, then up to Canada, then back to the US, then back to Canada). Another great Tonar burst....
 
Is it really that easy to get around patent law? Can Warmoth just open a Vancouver office (half kidding)?
 
Someone around here must know.

But irregardless, I've had good experience with the big W so far and would be willing to get a little adventurous to get something through them. How feasible is it to just order a body blank (neck pocket, pickup routs, bridge/studs, control rout) and cut the body myself. What do I really need that I don't have besides a band saw? Might even be fun?

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So why can they sell them if Warmoth can't?
Not a legal expert, but I'm guessing it's because Vancouver is in a different legal jurisdiction than Warmoth. Because of this, if Gibson were to try to pursue their (arguably long abandoned) trademarks in Canada, it would be a whole new judicial exercise, with no guarantee of winning. For example Gibson lost their case in the EU, as the EU judge (quite rightly IMHO) ruled that the trademarks were long abandoned and the Gibson body shapes had fallen into public domain years ago. Thinking they don't want to try in Canada, as that would open up new arguments in the US, where GIbson managed to get a fingernail's amount of traction on their arguments.
 
Presumably Warmoth could come up with a doublecut design that is different enough to Gibson's to avoid legal trouble, just as the Regal is different enough to a Les Paul.

The question is whether they think they would get enough sales for it to be worth doing the design work.
 
Is it really that easy to get around patent trademark law? Can Warmoth just open a Vancouver office (half kidding)?

Not that easy. Warmoth is a U.S. company with a U.S. storefront and presence. They are subject to U.S. trademark law. Warmoth is a busy, successful business as is, and there is no profit in poking the bear.

Gibson managed to secure retroactive U.S. trademarks on their body shapes (something the U.S. Trademark & Patent Office and the Federal courts have denied Fender), and control all rights to those body shapes in the U.S. And they've become more aggressive about defending those shapes since they secured those trademarks. Warmoth removed/reworked their LP, LP Special, Flying V, and Explorer bodies, as well as their Ibanez and PRS bodies for good measure.

Precision is a 100% Canadian company with a Canadian factory and Canadian storefront, and they only have to adhere to Canadian trademarks held by Gibson (which are for headstock designs). But that doesn't mean that it is legal to export them to the U.S. One day, Precision may have to deal with the U.S. Customs, which can legally seize trademark violations at the border (at the buyer's expense). This is why most kit makers have redesigned their Gibson body shapes.
 
Warmoth is a family owned business in Puyallup, Wa. Been there for 40+ years. Not looking to grow too fast, beyond what is absorbable according to demand. Demand determines growth, pace determines absorbability, time determines sustainability. If no need to expand based on demand, then manufacturing can expect to remain in its current jurisdiction.
when approaching a topic like this, it’s helpful to remove emotion and base it sole on the economics at play. This was a huge lesson for me directly from Ken Warmoth that have helped me to understand business in general and address this topic from a much simpler position and perspective. I’m sure The Aaron might agree on that.
 
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Oh good god - you can't order LP style controls on a body blank?? Tell me that's a glitch...
 
My Warmoth doublecut got like 7th place out of 8 entries for GOM so that'll tell you just how popular the body style would be if it were reintroduced. I'd settle for a flat top Regal though. Precision Guitar Kits are fantastic, btw
 
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