Is there a market for used Warmoths?

[Stonker]

One thing that concerns me about a Warmoth build is used value.  I guess really it's about building a superior guitar that makes you happy without thinking about selling it or how much you will get for it.  I kind of wonder though whether they may be difficult to sell and get a decent price for.

What are your experiences?

 

[line6man]

Warmoths do not have resale value. Expect to get $600-$700 for a $2000 build, on a good day.

Most people part theirs out, as there is more money to be made that way. The tradeoff, however, is that it will take a while to sell everything.

 

[Cagey]

My observation/experience over the years has been that as a general rule of thumb is you can expect to get back roughly 50% or less of what you spend provided it's still in very good condition, and you often have to sell the component parts to get there rather than the full assembly.

There's an old saying: If you wanna make a small fortune in the music business, start with a large fortune.

Ask Guitar Center. They've been within a blonde hair's breadth of going out of business for years even after basically taking over the retail music business in the US.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Here in Denmark complete Warmoth guitars usually goes around 25% -33% of the complete new price. Parting them out is the way to go. But one way or the other you are taking a substantial economic hit.

 

[Stonker]

OK.  That's kind of what I expected.  Frustrating really if they are superior to a Fender which over the years normally appreciates.  Well, after enough years

 

[Cagey]

Quality is one thing, but usually what makes things increase in value is rarity and/or association. You can buy Strats made all over the world that will compete favorably with Fender's American-made units, often surpassing them. But, there are jillions of them, so they're not worth much, nor will they ever be no matter how old they get. Les Pauls are the same way. A '57 Gibson Les Paul might fetch 50K, but it's nowhere near as nice as an Agile 3000 series Paul copy you can get for $400. Thing is, there are only a few '57 Pauls. There are a jillion copies so they're not worth much, nor will they ever be. Most old guitars are junk, or close to it. But if it's rare, or somebody famous played it, that changes the picture.

 

[Wolfie351]

OK.  That's kind of what I expected.  Frustrating really if they are superior to a Fender which over the years normally appreciates.  Well, after enough years

Nothing frustrating about it when you BUY used Warmoth items.  My last couple builds have been from W parts off eBay and, as Cagey said, I saved about 50%.  If you have something specific in mind that you want, you're going to pay a premium.  If you wait for inspiration to come to you (by the way of random eBay auction), you'll save big $$ and enjoy the same quality.

But, with that said, it's only slightly worse than buying a brand new PRS, Fender or Gibson.  If you buy a mass-produced $2000 guitar, the second you leave the store it's only worth about $1200.  It's going to be a couple decades before the value goes back up to $2000 and then you are still at a loss when you calculate for inflation.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

It's the truly custom nature that makes something not have resale value.  Those custom bikes people pay 300k for, it's a little known secret you can't get them insured for the purchased value and can't sell them for what you paid for them.  It's the same with these.

Plus, they are parts, so there's no factory assembly.  Who wired it?  Who put it together?  That's some of what you're paying for.

 

[Stonker]

What's your view of Warmoth builds being advertised as 'Custom USA Fender'?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111458447202?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Those custom bikes people pay 300k for, it's a little known secret you can't get them insured for the purchased value

What terrible insurance companies these people must be dealing with. You can insure anything for any amount, for the right premium.

 

[stratamania]

What's your view of Warmoth builds being advertised as 'Custom USA Fender'?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111458447202?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It's a bit vaguely described. It doesn't say the neck is Fender, though it has the logo and they don't show a photo of the heel of the neck.

I think it's potentially misleading and caveat emptor.

I don't think calling something Fender if it's only a scratch plate is accurate.

If it stated what it was then fine. Decals are another discussion.

 

[Stonker]

That's kind of how I felt.  I don't know the legal position regarding the decals but I quite like it on there.  I do feel it should be more accurately described though.  (Not that I will do anything).

Where do they get the decals from?

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Someone with more legal expertise will no doubt chime in.

But, if it's not what it says it is, and you know it, and you're selling it, it's illegal.

It's not illegal to make or own a fake Rolex.  It is illegal to sell a fake Rolex as the real McCoy.

You can do whatever you want to your own private property, but the moment you capitalize on the reputation of a counterfeit for financial gain, the one taking the indirect loss (Fender) can protect their brand.

The waterslide decals, not illegal to own, buy, or apply, but illegal for the seller because they are not Fender.

 

[Cagey]

That's pretty much exactly it.

What I don't understand is why anyone would want to give credit to [insert brand name here] when they've built something out of superior components using superior craftsmanship. Kinda like Ferrari putting on a Chevrolet hood ornament. Not to take anything away from Chevy, but they're not Ferraris.

 

[Stonker]

OK but supposing that you put a decal on it but then when you came to put it on Ebay, you said quite clearly that it was a Warmoth Neck with a Fender decal on? 

Can you readily buy the decals?

 

[Cagey]

You're still lying to onlookers who don't know any better, and making a fool of yourself in front of those that do. Then, when you go to sell it, if you admit to your deception, you're asking somebody to forward it.

I'm certainly no moral authority, though. It's just me. I think it's wrong because it's deceptive. Besides, I'm proud to identify my guitars as having a Warmoth/Cagey pedigree. We're both very good at what we do, and if you pay any attention to the GOM contests or the Warmoth Gallery you can see that others are as well.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

In the gallery, the ones with Fender headstocks have the headstocks cropped out of the photo, so we don't know what's on there.  The Chevy/Ferrari analogy is flawed.  For it to even be comparable, Ferrari would have to make Chevy licensed compatible parts.  If they did, a Chevy hood ornament wouldn't look out of place.


To answer the question, I've bought some decals at guitar shows and one can find them online.

 

[stratamania]

The question is a little broader than if you've made a top notch instrument out of quality parts being better than what the decal may represent or not. So why put one on in the first place, could be for a number of reasons. And those reasons are largely for the most part personal ones like how something looks etc.

Another thing with a F decal, is if you put one on and sell it as a none Fender with a decal you've put on. What happens the next time it's sold ?

So if you put one on and resell perhaps it should just be removed.

Often in the area of fake goods being passed off as the recognised article they are cheaper goods posing as something better. In this case no one would want to be fooled. Of course if you knowingly buy something cheap and fake such as a fake Rolex to impress others there is a market around for that type of thing.

Back to this E bay ad, all of the parts may be good quality and it may have been well put together. But I think the point here is that the ad isn't just talking up the item for sale but leading the unaware to think it may be something that it isn't.

 

[DslDwg]

My take on the re-sale situation.

It's like taking a brand new Ferrari and painting it metallic pink.

In your mind it's a $250,000 car with a $50,000 paint job. It should be worth $300,000.

But unless you find a buyer who loves your favorite shade of metallic pink it's in actuality only worth the highest amount that any buyer would pay.

Most of us make these Warmoth creations very personal and the chance that someone else puts together a combination that would interest enough to pay full price would be incredibly rare.

Never mind do we trust an unknown seller with the assembly and set-up of the guitar.

People talk a lot about resale on here but if you buy the avg. mass produced Ibanez, Schecter, ESP guitar how well do they hold value? I've seen plenty of Ibanez prestige guitar selling at less than half of new.

Are there Ibanez guitars that hold value or even go up - sure. Typically they are expensive to begin with and are produced in limited quantities to skew the supply and demand.

Bottom line build what you like - enjoy and don't worry about selling it.

These are not investments

 

[AndyG]

Bottom line build what you like - enjoy and don't worry about selling it.

These are not investments

Agreed 100%.
I have always looked at my instruments as something that I will have as close to forever as I can.  That said, I have made a few "impulse" purchases of basses that seemed to work for me at the time, then cringed at the 30-50% hit I took on them when selling.  That is why I'm now building what I want.

And as a wise person once said:  "My biggest fear when I die is that my wife sells my guitars for what I told her I paid for them!"