I want a "REAL" B.C. Rich Custom Shop Guitar

[Torment Leaves Scars]

The time has come to cash in on that B.C. Rich Custom Shop Guitar I've dreamed about since I was about 13 years old.  I have been dying for a Warlock Supreme for decades.  Prior to ordering parts for my W, I'd played a Custom Shop model I saw at a store and it was the biggest disappointment I'd ever put my hands on.  Parts literally fell off in my hand, the fret-work was beyond deplorable, the frets looked like hanger wire beaten into the neck, and the sound was...atrocious.  It was at that time I cast my love for B.C. Rich aside, and I've never looked back.

...Enter Neal Moser.  As many know, he was the man behind the B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitars in the late 70s to the 80s, as well as the father of the Bich, Virgin, and Seagull.  Neal runs his own company, and I even had him do the setup and assembly of my W.

Neal Moser is still hand-making the all the above models, yet under his own name.  IMO, these are the REAL B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitars.  It's been said, "If you want a real B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitar, there's only one place you can get it; Neal Moser."

I have a dilemma.  I don't want a Bich, Virgin, or Eagle, I want a Moser FastStar.  While this isn't a B.C. Rich, given its shape, it certainly could be.  Here's my stupid question:

Even if I get a model that was never a B.C. Rich, technically, since he build the B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitars of the Golden Era, would I be getting a "real" B.C. Rich?  I'm really fighting with myself over this.  If I got a Bich, Virgin, or Eagle, I could definitely say I got a "real" B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitar since he built them, but this is one of his own designs.

Here's what I have in mind.  I apologize for linking another forum, but this is a thread in regards to one someone bought.  Have your drool cup handy.  ccasion14:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/228788-moser-custom-shop-faststar-7-a.html

 

[stratamania]

Well, if the guitar is for you who cares what is on the headstock etc.

It's an interesting take on that style of guitar in the link you posted.

For some reason I always picture BC Rich in black.

 

[DslDwg]

My opinion only of course.

BC Rich custom shop or handmade guitars don't really exist any more.

Neal or Bernie Jr. are probably as close as it gets. I think both guys will re-create any of the classic BC Rich shapes.

Then there is the company BC Rich who is owned by a corporation who barely seems to care about building guitars anymore.

They didn't have their own custom shop like Gibson or Fender does to take over the hand-made custom builds. So they mostly had small luthiers anonymously build their "Custom" guitars. At some point Bernie Jr. himself though I'm not sure you could specify that he do the build and the customs were/are very expensive.

Neal's build always appear to be top notch while I've heard mixed reviews from Bernie Jr.s shop. Either way if you have one of them build you a BC Rich classic shape you'll have a pretty good representation of what you're looking for.

The guitar in the thread while beautiful is it's own shape non-BC. It is what it is - a Moser.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

My opinion only of course.

BC Rich custom shop or handmade guitars don't really exist any more.

Neal or Bernie Jr. are probably as close as it gets. I think both guys will re-create any of the classic BC Rich shapes.

Then there is the company BC Rich who is owned by a corporation who barely seems to care about building guitars anymore.

They didn't have their own custom shop like Gibson or Fender does to take over the hand-made custom builds. So they mostly had small luthiers anonymously build their "Custom" guitars. At some point Bernie Jr. himself though I'm not sure you could specify that he do the build and the customs were/are very expensive.

Neal's build always appear to be top notch while I've heard mixed reviews from Bernie Jr.s shop. Either way if you have one of them build you a BC Rich classic shape you'll have a pretty good representation of what you're looking for.

The guitar in the thread while beautiful is it's own shape non-BC. It is what it is - a Moser.

I was just on Bernie's page and he's "non-existent."  I couldn't even view the models of his guitars.  There was a link to Facebook and there were people talking about how they gave him down payments on guitars and he wasn't answering phone calls, emails, and guitars were not being delivered to customers.

From what I understand, Neal still hand-builds his guitars.  I've read every review I could possibly find on Neal Moser's guitars and everybody has nothing but praise for his instruments.

 

[mayfly]

I dunno - if you want the guitar, go get it. 

Who cares what a bunch of guitar forum guys think?

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I dunno - if you want the guitar, go get it. 

Who cares what a bunch of guitar forum guys think?

It's not that I care, per se, I'm just looking for an opinion.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

In my opinion, if Neal Moser built guitars at one time but has stopped doing it, then there's no such thing as a Neal Moser guitar. Doesn't matter what company he worked at before, during or after. I mean, if his day job now was for Chrysler, would he be building "Chrysler" guitars? No, they'd still be Neal Moser units. The B. C. Rich name was of a company, not a result. But, if he's not doing it, the point is moot.

What difference does it make anyway? Did his guitars include magic spells or talismans or something? Lotsa people make excellent guitars these days. It's nowhere near as difficult as it used to be.

Someday, if you meet him in person, you can buy him a beer and ask what it was like working for a company in serious decline/failure. Maybe find out why. And if he really is working for Chrysler, ask him why he's doing it again <grin>

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

In my opinion, if Neal Moser built guitars at one time but has stopped doing it, then there's no such thing as a Neal Moser guitar. Doesn't matter what company he worked at before, during or after. I mean, if his day job now was for Chrysler, would he be building "Chrysler" guitars? No, they'd still be Neal Moser units. The B. C. Rich name was of a company, not a result. But, if he's not doing it, the point is moot.

What difference does it make anyway? Did his guitars include magic spells or talismans or something? Lotsa people make excellent guitars these days. It's nowhere near as difficult as it used to be.

Someday, if you meet him in person, you can buy him a beer and ask what it was like working for a company in serious decline/failure. Maybe find out why. And if he really is working for Chrysler, ask him why he's doing it again <grin>

Yes, his guitars include magic spells, talismans, and magic fairy dust.  :toothy12:

Okay, seriously...while it is true, B.C. Rich is a company, not the individual, if he built those guitars that are so widely praised, it's his craftsmanship that adds to that distinctive "feel," hence reflecting on the name and reputation of the company.

Basically, I don't care what name is on the headstock, I just want the experience of one of those renowned instruments; the feel, the sound, quality, etc.  I want an "original" B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitar, but a NEW one, if that makes sense...

 

[DslDwg]

Sounds like Bernie Jr. is just as squirly as his dad as a business man.

I know he did a "Black Friday" run on another forum I'm on and got himself way over extended. I didn't follow but it look like it blew up in his face.

Too bad when he was doing the customs they looked pretty damn solid.

Realize while Moser may have been responsible for some of the most famous shapes. A lot of the actual workers where Mexican builders that Bernie Sr. brought up from Mexico.

Part of what made so many of the guitars special was that the guys were still hand shaping each and every piece by hand.

I have to agree with other posters though, even if you commission Moser to build you an exact replica of a USA Bich. It's still a Moser copy of a BC Rich Bich.

Sorry to say but the glory days of BC Rich appear to be done. Probably the best you could hope for is someone like Fender buy them like they did with Charvel or Jackson and set them up again as a brand built by people that actually know guitars.

 

[Cagey]

Basically, I don't care what name is on the headstock, I just want the experience of one of those renowned instruments; the feel, the sound, quality, etc.  I want an "original" B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitar, but a NEW one, if that makes sense...

Sure, it makes sense. What I was saying earlier, though, is that it's not that tough to get a very high-end guitar these days. There's a lotta good tools, material and talent out there; it's not so unusual to find pieces that will make you supremely happy, many of them far superior to the best of the ancients. Having grown up during the "glory days" of many guitars, I can tell you that we live in good times. There's very little from the past in the guitar world that I have more than a passing curiosity about for historical reasons. Wouldn't want to own any of it, other than to sell it to some fool who thinks it's valuable.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Sounds like Bernie Jr. is just as squirly as his dad as a business man.

I know he did a "Black Friday" run on another forum I'm on and got himself way over extended. I didn't follow but it look like it blew up in his face.

Too bad when he was doing the customs they looked pretty damn solid.

Realize while Moser may have been responsible for some of the most famous shapes. A lot of the actual workers where Mexican builders that Bernie Sr. brought up from Mexico.

Part of what made so many of the guitars special was that the guys were still hand shaping each and every piece by hand.

I have to agree with other posters though, even if you commission Moser to build you an exact replica of a USA Bich. It's still a Moser copy of a BC Rich Bich.

Sorry to say but the glory days of BC Rich appear to be done. Probably the best you could hope for is someone like Fender buy them like they did with Charvel or Jackson and set them up again as a brand built by people that actually know guitars.

Well, the last thing I wanna do is discredit Bernie's guitars, as I've never seen or played one, but I've heard his guitars are either hit or miss.  I've also heard he's a pretty shady businessman.  Given what I'm seeing about how he's just "disappeared," I'm forced to believe that's the case.

Basically, I don't care what name is on the headstock, I just want the experience of one of those renowned instruments; the feel, the sound, quality, etc.  I want an "original" B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitar, but a NEW one, if that makes sense...

Sure, it makes sense. What I was saying earlier, though, is that it's not that tough to get a very high-end guitar these days. There's a lotta good tools, material and talent out there; it's not so unusual to find pieces that will make you supremely happy, many of them far superior to the best of the ancients. Having grown up during the "glory days" of many guitars, I can tell you that we live in good times. There's very little from the past in the guitar world that I have more than a passing curiosity about for historical reasons. Wouldn't want to own any of it, other than to sell it to some fool who thinks it's valuable.

Very true, but at the same time, everything today is CNC'd.  In retrospect, you're not getting anything special.  You're basically picking and choosing woods, which is nice, but your guitar is going to be the same as everyone else's who orders the same thing.  Sure, I could go get a Jackson Custom Shop Warrior, but is it really going to be any better than the USA Select Series models?  I'd probably be getting the same thing, but at an elevated price due to just choosing my own stuff.

 

[Cagey]

I think the consistency/repeatability that CNCs bring to the party is a Good Thing. I've got about 15 guitars here, and about 12 of them have the same neck except for wood species. As a result, I have very little trouble moving from one instrument to the next. I get a different look/sound without a fight. If I can play a tune on one of them, I can play it on almost all of them.

 

[mayfly]

Having grown up during the "glory days" of many guitars, I can tell you that we live in good times. There's very little from the past in the guitar world that I have more than a passing curiosity about for historical reasons. Wouldn't want to own any of it, other than to sell it to some fool who thinks it's valuable.

I've been there too, and I must agree - the good old days are right now.  Every one of those old guitars I played back in the 'old days', which included many 1950's/60's/70's Fenders, Gibsons, Gretschs, and the odd 1970's BC Rich (I have a strong memory of a mockingbird that I swear weighed 20 lbs) just can't compare to what you can build / buy right now.  A mid-model PRS would blow all of them away.

One exception to all of the above is Rickenbacker.  Those guys never had a 'bad' period, and all the old ones stand up.  Of course the new ones are still made by the same people under the same ownership, so you may as well just get a new one.  :headbang:

Anyway if you're looking for an opinion, I'd say if you really want one of those BC Rich custom shop models, pick up and old one that's close to what you want.  A cool old guitar to be sure, but it won't be as good as a well put together warmoth 

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I think the consistency/repeatability that CNCs bring to the party is a Good Thing. I've got about 15 guitars here, and about 12 of them have the same neck except for wood species. As a result, I have very little trouble moving from one instrument to the next. I get a different look/sound without a fight. If I can play a tune on one of them, I can play it on almost all of them.

I'd agree CNC is a very good thing, but there's nothing special about a CNC'd guitar.  I could just as easily go pick out a slab of wood, bring it to a wood shop, and have someone cut me a custom body and/or neck.  When you get a CNC'd guitar, there is some insurance that everything's going to be cut to spec, but at the same time, you're getting the same thing everyone else does.  If I get a Fender Custom Shop Strat, is it really any better or worse than a $1,100 American Standard?  I'd be paying a huge premium just to have somebody walk into a warehouse with a pick-list, an engraving on a neck-plate, and to pay little close attention to detail.  It's not going to feel any different than any other Stratocaster.  In other words,  I don't wanna go to a large manufacturer and pay a premium just to pick woods that aren't normally used on the production line, I want more than that.  What would I be getting for the extra $3,000, other than "Custom Shop" emblazoned across the headstock?

Having grown up during the "glory days" of many guitars, I can tell you that we live in good times. There's very little from the past in the guitar world that I have more than a passing curiosity about for historical reasons. Wouldn't want to own any of it, other than to sell it to some fool who thinks it's valuable.

I've been there too, and I must agree - the good old days are right now.  Every one of those old guitars I played back in the 'old days', which included many 1950's/60's/70's Fenders, Gibsons, Gretschs, and the odd 1970's BC Rich (I have a strong memory of a mockingbird that I swear weighed 20 lbs) just can't compare to what you can build / buy right now.  A mid-model PRS would blow all of them away.

One exception to all of the above is Rickenbacker.  Those guys never had a 'bad' period, and all the old ones stand up.  Of course the new ones are still made by the same people under the same ownership, so you may as well just get a new one.  :headbang:

Anyway if you're looking for an opinion, I'd say if you really want one of those BC Rich custom shop models, pick up and old one that's close to what you want.  A cool old guitar to be sure, but it won't be as good as a well put together warmoth 

...And this is the same guy who built the custom BCRs of the 70s and 80s, so what would be the difference between him and Rickenbacker?  They're still built by the same people, right?  :icon_scratch:

Warmoth make some great parts, no doubt about it.  I obviously know this, because I own one (as do 99.999999% of the people on the forum), but they're not handmade, they're made on a CNC machine.  The same guy who selects a "Star" body, "Wizard" neck, "Arrow' headstock, and jumbo frets is getting the same thing I am.  I could go play his guitar back to back with mine (blindfolded) and they'd feel exactly the same.  While there's certainly something to be said for consistency, when you get a handcrafted instrument, NOBODY is going to have the exact same thing you do.

As it stands, my Warmoth is amazing.  It plays wonderfully, and despite owning a more expensive guitar (2003 Jackson USA KV2), the Warmoth is the one I'm ALWAYS reaching for.  VERY RARELY do I reach for that KV2 over my Warmoth.

...But the Warmoth isn't perfect.  They don't offer some features that are important to me, such as binding on 24-fret necks.  While that's something small, I really like the quality appearance binding offers, and I want 24 frets.  I can't get that from Warmoth (for whatever reason...).  That's disappointing.  Warmoth also doesn't manufacturer neck-through guitars, which have their own distinctive feels, which is something I also like.  While I have the "720" mod and the "contoured" heel on mine, I still have trouble reaching the back frets, and it's a 22-fret neck.

There's no guarantee a custom, handcrafted guitar is going to be perfect, and given the excellent feel of my Warmoth, I may STILL find myself reaching for that one above all others.  I am yet to play a guitar I "connect" with as much as my Warmoth, and within the past three and a half years, I've played a lot of guitars.

I've done a lot of research on Neal Moser's guitars, and I'm yet to find a single poor review on them.  Everyone seems to widely praise them, from the customer service, to the quality, to the sound.  I think a handcrafted instrument is going to have a different feel from a run of the mill, CNC'd instrument.  I think handcrafters probably take a bigger pride in their work than someone who just throws a slab of wood on a table and observes a blade slicing it into shape.  I want the ENTIRE "custom shop experience" of a B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitar.  I had big dreams of owning one back in the 80s, and now I can afford one.  It's like a 1971 Chevelle.  While a new one may be more reliable, get better gas mileage, and handle better, the "feel" won't even come close to that of the classic.  That's what I want; I want that old classic.  ccasion14:

 

[Cagey]

Whaddaya gonna do? The heart wants what the heart wants.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Whaddaya gonna do? The heart wants what the heart wants.

Yeah, unfortunately so.  I guess I just need to experience something other than the norm.  Unlike a Fender Strat, I can't just walk into any store and get one.  I'd just like to get something unique, I guess...

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I couldn't recommend Neal enough.  He's a fantastic luthier, and one of my dearest friends.
Truth be told, when I applied at Warmoth several months before I started working there (for the 1 year that I was there), Neal personally called to provide a reference for me.
His workmanship and his character are unmatched. :headbang:

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I couldn't recommend Neal enough.  He's a fantastic luthier, and one of my dearest friends.
Truth be told, when I applied at Warmoth several months before I started working there (for the 1 year that I was there), Neal personally called to provide a reference for me.
His workmanship and his character are unmatched. :headbang:

That's a relief to hear, Tony!  Neal also assembled my W for me.  I can't remember who recommended him, but after I found out who he was, I was adamant he was the guy I wanted to build it and set it up for me.  He did a phenomenal job, the guitar felt great!  Not only did he do a great job on the guitar, but Neal and Earlleen were great to deal with.  They kept in contact with me, let me know how the project was coming along, and were just prompt to answer emails.  They clearly value their customers and provided excellent customer service.

I told him in a few years I'd be back for a FastStar, and it's been a few years.  arty07:

 

[stubhead]

There's very little from the past in the guitar world that I have more than a passing curiosity about for historical reasons. Wouldn't want to own any of it, other than to sell it to some fool who thinks it's valuable.... The heart wants what the heart wants.

And the little booger can mess with your memories, too - a powerful re-creation memory of something that never was. Never mind the '68 SG, the Coronado Bass II. One of my two absolute soul wrenching "ones that got away" was an original SOLID QUILTED MAPLE Mockingbird bought at Austin's Guitar Resurrection for $400 around 1983? You always see these with solid koa sides wings and the maple/koa neck. I have NEVER ever seen another one with the quilted maple wings and the koa stringers. And the reason(s) it "got" away was because that big upper spike gave me a serious case of "guitar tit", it was heavy as could be, all the other guitarists laughed at it (Austin already in the nascent snowballing "vintage Strat" nonsense). And above all, it actually sounded pretty crappy, it had the two DiMarzio "Super Distortion" PU's and the active electronics with a million different tones,about two of them sounded OK. It was widely reported that Wagner/Hunter ripped out the guts out of their Eagles and wired them up normal... But what wall art it was...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FdWPeHFAMk
The other was a Travis Bean 1000, shaped like a 335 but - solid koa! I think that was the first guitar I owned that could make my whole arm go numb from using a strap.

~WAA-AAH~ ​

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I haven't been on the forum in a few weeks, but I did it...I pulled the trigger.  On January 30th, I pulled the trigger on a Neal Moser Custom Shop Faststar.  arty07:

http://www.nealmoserguitars.com/?main_page=product_info&products_id=210

I'll be on a waiting list for about a year.