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I need help learning scales!

stankybudz

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I've basically been playing drums and guitar all my life, and honestly, I am pretty decent. However, I feel like I am getting "stuck" per se, with my music abilities.  I never took lessons because I just wanted to play! I can jam over blues riffs or whatever you throw at me, BUT it takes me a minute to find a spot on the neck to start on, and I have trouble improvising and knowing where to go next. I can eventually figure it out because I have ears on my head, but I want to know when and why we play the notes we do. I can listen to a Metallica solo, or something of the like, and get it note for note with tabs/youtube/listening, but I don't know how to apply what I've learned from one song into theory of another.  I get overwhelmed so easily! I'll listen to Joe Satriani or an old Vinnie Moore solo and just feel completely worthless with my axe! My main point of this post is this, what should I be practicing on or doing to better understand how to play the entire neck, and to know where every note is, and know when I can use them! Any input would be appreciated!
 
My friend, you are an excellent candidate for some lessons.  You know your way around the guitar, you are motivated to learn, and you have an idea of some specific things you want to learn.  Start interviewing teachers.  Note that there are many teachers who cannot teach - they spend the session blowing you away with how badass they are on their axe. Avoid these folks.  Ask for references. 


Where are you located?  I know  a couple instructors in the SF Bay area.
 
Where are you located?  I know  a couple instructors in the SF Bay area.
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Ya know, I've kinda been looking around for a good instructor in my area for some time now. I even tried to venture off and go to that bandhappy site where people give lessons online, I sent at least 20 pms to the ''teachers'' on there and have had 0 replies. I live in Indiana, and my best bet would be something in Indianapolis, but thats where the motivation drops off, it's like an hour and a half away. Now I wouldnt mind driving that like once a month, IF I found the right teacher, but I dont want to waste a trip up there. That bandhappy site, on the otherhand, made me think that it would be possible to get a guitar lesson from virtually anyone given todays technology, would anyone on this forum be interested in helping me get my chops up? Im willing to pay 20-30 an hour for live online  lessons. Let me know guys!
 
Consider an instructor from a major market who will do Skype sessions.  No driving, more time to practice, and a much larger selection of opportunities. 


Also, there are a ton of free lessons on Youtube.  I recommend starting with a fella in Detroit named Rob Bourassa, who has done a huge number of high-quality lessons that are very well organized.  If his style does not work for you, there are lots of others.


http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rob+bourassa+guitar+lessons&oq=rob+bourassa+guitar+lessons&gs_l=youtube.3..0.562.6393.0.6698.27.13.0.14.14.0.141.885.7j6.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.xfmlmHP_Iuc



 
I'd like to add that Justin Sandercore has a ton of stuff on YouTube and even more if you go to his website. I haven't been there for quite a while but everything was free with an option to make a donation if you liked what you were getting. He's got a lot of good stuff.

His YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JustinSandercoe
His website: http://www.justinguitar.com

MULLY
 
Justin has a couple lessons that you do have to pay for but would be exactly what your looking for. 

The first is practical music theory: http://justinguitar.com/en/PR-010-PracticalMusicTheory.php - it's an eBook that you download.  This will give you the background info on how it works how scales are constructed, the chords of the scales, etc.  It's all guitar specific and even being a classically trained musician I learned more from his book than I did in years of music theory classes - WELL worth the time to work through it.

The second is Master the major scale: http://justinguitar.com/en/PR-005-MasterMajorScale.php .  He has a demo video of it there.  He teaches you all 5 positioned of the CAGED method and how to link, them, etc.  This is the hands on part.

You'll spend about $50 and believe me it's something you'll come back to time after time.  Excellent stuff.
 
Have you tried YouTube?
I'll bet you can find plenty of scales there.

:hello2: :toothy12: :blob7: :toothy12: :hello2:

OK, what you want to look for and find, for free on the net now - is someone talking about the C-A-G-E-D system. What that is, is a very efficient way of finding what are called "boxes" by guitarists. These are visual little mental map constructions right on the fingerboard that you learn to see, and eventually move them around. What the CAGED thing does is breaks down each position where you start off  - five different ways to play a C-major scale. And music, and the guitar neck representation of it. It's a very powerful way of drawing MAPS up and across the neck getting your ass up the fingerboard (and bring the fingers along)!

I've taught lessons off and on for 20 years or so, and I fear the "Just take lessons!" mantra, because an awful lot of "teachers" don't really know what button to push first, so they push READING MUSIC. Which I think is important, and I can, and do - but for someone in your state, the two things I would push is that you start right off in playing MUSIC, not exercises; and that it be enjoyable enough that it doesn't seem like work.

SO: put your middle finger on the 5th fret of the bottom string. Now, every note that's on a dot on the 6th string, 5th string and 4th string are notes in the A minor scale. You just look at that... thing that's laying there on the fingerboard, from the 3rd fret to the 7th fret. It's two, connected, boxes. You can roam up and down it for a while, but scales get deadly dull that way so try to break them up, play a low note, play a high note... one in between, one note twice as long, it's endless. It might be fun to try to make one note SOUND really good, and sneak up on it in different ways...

And the two best things you can do for yourself - when that noodling above sounds a little bit like music - nursery rhymes, whatever - CHASE THAT DOWN. HARD. Doesn't matter if it's a Christmas carol, chewing gum ad, Black Sabbath, find the next note! It's either higher, lower, or the same - it can't really NOT be there. :icon_scratch:

And the other thing is to make yourself a map of the entire fretboard. You can find one online, but you won't remember it as well as if you draw it, and you need these maps eventually anyway. In a word processing program, set the orientation on "landscape" - this will be in the "format" file. It's just tipping the paper the long way. Then make a table with 14 columns and 8 rows. Print it out and dot in just the notes of the C major scale - you can figure that out. DON'T fill in the other notes, because you want to see - and remember - the boxes that are formed. You could maybe make all the C notes big circles, and all the A notes bigger dots? :laughing7:

As far as writing things down vs. just finding more and more internet stuff, my students used to kill me. Come in all hyper-excited "I found a place to get any scale, see?" And they'd punch in a double harmonic scale in F# and I'd say "Great! Where is it?" And they'd point to the screen and say "There! There! See?" and me look real close at their fingers and guitar neck and say "But, where IS it?" Dickhead that I am... :glasses9:

 
Creative Guitar Studio has a pretty good channel on YouTube with a TON of info. Here's a taste for you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAasyi7uPh8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHUS1WNYdSU

The guy isn't the most exciting person to listen to, but he knows his stuff.
MULLY
 
StubHead said:
And the other thing is to make yourself a map of the entire fretboard. You can find one online, but you won't remember it as well as if you draw it, and you need these maps eventually anyway. In a word processing program, set the orientation on "landscape" - this will be in the "format" file. It's just tipping the paper the long way. Then make a table with 14 columns and 8 rows. Print it out and dot in just the notes of the C major scale - you can figure that out. DON'T fill in the other notes, because you want to see - and remember - the boxes that are formed. You could maybe make all the C notes big circles, and all the A notes bigger dots?

This. It's really the only way to learn scale patterns and how they interact with the C-A-G-E-D system of moving chords around. Once you start to see how those two things interact the whole fretboard opens up. And there is no other way to learn it other than to sit down and do it. Then do it again. And again. Until you don't have to do it anymore.

Hell, after 25+ years of playing, I'm still doing it, still learning it. Still re-learning it. The ones with true TALENT, get it ingrained. Lucky SOBs....
 
A-O.K! Gotcha...

http://lgn1333624872.site-fusion.co.uk/lessons-downloads/scales

There's a bit about the "boxes" too. You want to SEE these shapes as they come up. although he's using a weird size chart that comes up to be... 3/5 of a page?!? I'll try and fiddle it up to a full page-per-pix. This guy is a teacher who is... OK. Not fantastic, but he's earning a living of some sort out of music, more Power To Him! These PDF charts are just perfect, but: you still need to write one yourself, it's a map of the neck. Everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY who can play worth a hoot, knows that map.There are six strings up and down the left side, but make a chart with NINE - room to scribble. And there are 12 frets across, then it just repeats itself above the 12th fret. But make 15, cause you... well, just do. If there's no simple way to blow this up to a full page on the computer, you can just DRAW one of these things in 20 minutes with a ruler. And if you go that route, ink in the lines and hit the library, coffee shop post office, SOMEWHERE that has a copier. Just the blank 9X15 chart, no nothing filled in. And the very next thing - find a copier and blow up about 20 because you'll be using them the rest of your life.

I would strongly advise that for a little while, you stick with ONE scale for a time. Now, the C major scale has exactly the same notes as the A minor scale - identical. You just emphasize  a different grouping. I personally think you'll get further faster if you LIMIT yourself to a few chords/keys/scales. That's a principle of mine and many, even most other teachers - don't overload your brain with too many different things, you want to really KNOW something before you move on. It's all additive knowledge, but if you just keep plowing through the internet digging up more and more stuff it'll fritz your brain - guaranteed. I don't know how many times I had a student run up with the new miracle website that has EVERYTHING!! EEE EEEE EEEE! Only they can't PLAY a damn thing, they just stare at the computer and collect more websites.

So for now just draw or find the chart, copy it 20X and fill in the notes of a Cmajor/A minor scale on one of them. And then fiddle with it. I have tons of material, but either I, or the internet, or both, could absolutely load you  up so bad you'll be in the boobyhatch inside a year -

"Yes doctor, all he does is sit and mumble... and make squeaky noises...  and twitch his fingers."  :cool01:
 
Here's a great site for printing out blank music staffs, tabs, etc...

http://www.blanksheetmusic.net

I got real ingenious one time and made my own fretboard papers. What I did was this, I have an Eric Clapton Fender Strat, I went to Fender's page....or somewhere like that, and got the spec sheet for the EC Strat. It actually had a diagram of the guitar. I downloaded the diagram, threw it into photoshop and got rid of all the crap that was written on it, including the lines pointing to certain parts, cut it off at the end of the neck, turned it sideways, enlarged, printed. I ended up with a neck diagram that has the EC head on it. They look really good and are perfect for marking things down on the fingerboard.
MULLY
 
This is what I wanna be able to do... Effortlessly play the fretboard up and down, he rarely even looks at the guitar!  This guy blows my mind :party07:  I will check out the caged system soon I'm sure, for now, have your eyes and ears melted..

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5Wcf_j--FZc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> :party07:
 
It's easy. Just spend 5 to 8 hours a day practicing everything that's been mentioned so far, and POOF! Yer a shredder!

If you watch what he's doing closely, you'll notice that he's only picking about half the notes you're hearing. A lot of that is hammers, pulls, and sweeps, which are technique things more than knowing the scales. Also, watch when he does look - it's when he changes position. Once he knows where he's at, he's good to go. What's been said about the CAGED system and boxes gets you to where you can find an anchor point and just wail. Don't really need to watch yourself to do that, you just have to know what notes are legal for where you're at and what you're doing.

If you listen to what he's doing closely, you'll also notice it's all pretty generic. There's no melody to speak of. It's just mindless ranting. It sounds impressive technically, but so does Steve Vai. If you just want to blow away your friends or win an audition, that will do. If you wanna make music, well...

All that said, I wish I could do that, too. But, wishing won't make it so. Gotta bust your ass.
 
I've learned how to play several songs this year.  It still doesn't change the fact that I don't know the names of the chords. While have no interest in music theory, I just enjoy playing the guitar.
I'm sure half of what I'm doing corresponds to some lesson.
I was forced to learn piano at a young age and absolutely hated it, so I'm quite content noodling on my guitar without any structure.
 
Yea i get the arpeggios and everything youre saying basically. Once you understand what you can and cant do, thats the trick. And dont take this video to be vinnies best work, this guy has a lot of badass tunes for sure :headbang1: meltdown i believe is pretty wicked
 
Dude i read out the all your post but in mu point of view g scale is the best scale for the learning point of view because i also learn from this scale.
 
Day-mun said:
DustyCat said:
Don't forget the chromatic scale.
Every scale is in there somewhere.  :cool01:

:cool01:? Don't ya mean  :icon_jokercolor:?

Ya, totally, all those scales I was supposedto know in school so long ago, but because at the time, I barely squeaked by, they have all but VANISHED! in the oblivion of [EDIT: what's left of] my mind.
Oh yeah they're in there.....somewhere  :icon_jokercolor:

But seriously...the chromatic scale is how the guitar works, if not how it was built, notewise.  :cool01:
 
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