How much is my guitar worth?

[Don]

Hey everyone,
i had nothing to do so why not waste some time on this lovely forum!
Before someone says this should be in the gear for sale area and moves the post, i have to say i'm not going to sell anything on here.
I just thought it would be fun to see what you guys think to be a good price for my first build, since it such a particular creature!  :toothy12:
You can find it here http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=18800.msg293182#msg293182
Now for the characteristics!
Body: Mustang shaped Swamp Ash.
Scale: 25.5 "
Neck: 59' Roundback Indian Rosewood fingerboard on maple neck, schaller locking tuners with fender logo, stainless steel frets (i don't remember which type), Fender's 70s "F" neckplate.
Pickups: One Bare Knuckle's Irish Tour in the neck, one Bare Knuckle's Nantucket (neck) P90 in the middle, one Bare Knuckle's Irish tour in the bridge.
Bridge: Fixed Schaller roller bridge, Fender Jaguar vibrato.
Electronics: gibson style shielded wire, switchcraft switches and plates, CTS 500k pots, Mustang knobs, orange drop .022 mfd capacitor.
Pickguard: hand-shaped red pearloid duosonic style pickguard.
Finish: woodfiller, two coats of white nitro primer, two coats of vintage white nitro paint and one hand of clear matt lacquer.
Since it's in perfect condition and plays wonderfully i would say that 1400-1500 dollars is a fair price considered that i live in Europe.
Let the massacre begin!! :headbang:

 

[lucky13]

sounds like spam...but I'll bite...you wont get more than $750 on a good day for even the best builds as custom just dosnt get it out there on the guitar market...believe me I know ...lol

 

[Don]

sounds like spam...but I'll bite...you wont get more than $750 on a good day for even the best builds as custom just dosnt get it out there on the guitar market...believe me I know ...lol

iit's not spam, i'm a real person and forum member, and i don't want to sell anything.
I know that the custom guitars don't sell well, even though i can't understand why. The only people interested in high end hand made guitars are gear nuts and entendeurs. So why does the price drop for a guitar that is unique and hand made and it doesn't for a factory made one just because it bears a name on the headstock?  Go figure  :laughing7:

 

[greywolf]

I'd agree with the 7-800 mark . 
It isn't that it isn't worth more , it's that the average guitar player looks at what else they can get for that price.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

I know that the custom guitars don't sell well, even though i can't understand why. The only people interested in high end hand made guitars are gear nuts and entendeurs. So why does the price drop for a guitar that is unique and hand made and it doesn't for a factory made one just because it bears a name on the headstock?

Because when I build a Warmoth it would be spec'ed differently than the next guy's build. I have seen many Warmoths for sale. But I never saw one that would come close to what I would build myself. Why pay premium for something that's not what I want?

Next thing is - how do I know, that I'm not buying a collections of parts that has been ruined by a less than stellar "builder" and/or finisher.?

And a lot of people don't know Warmoth even though they played guitars for years. And those who do will also think about the resell value when buying used.

Here in Denmark I think used Warmoths go for around 700 dollars tops. Even though they represent a value that is 2x to 3x of that.

If you ever consider selling things. Then part the build out and sell each thing separately. It takes longer but you will get a less severe hit financially.

 

[JaySwear]

Unfortunately not much especially with it being a totally custom concept (25.5" Mustang). Warmoths never really command the prices they deserve I don't think. People love trying to sell their Warmoth for what they paid (check eBay) but it rarely happens, if ever.

Off topic, I love that guitar!

 

[lucky13]

sounds like spam...but I'll bite...you wont get more than $750 on a good day for even the best builds as custom just dosnt get it out there on the guitar market...believe me I know ...lol

iit's not spam, i'm a real person and forum member, and i don't want to sell anything.
I know that the custom guitars don't sell well, even though i can't understand why. The only people interested in high end hand made guitars are gear nuts and entendeurs. So why does the price drop for a guitar that is unique and hand made and it doesn't for a factory made one just because it bears a name on the headstock?  Go figure  :laughing7:

lol...ok...sorry Don....the thing is these days everyone including the big 2, Fender and Gibson as well as the rest now offer the custom options that were previously only available thru places like Warmoth.....and as SustainerPlayer said, the uninitiated dont know Warmoth the way you and I do, so they only see a guitar neck as a guitar neck not as the work of art or as the sonicly superior quality piece of wood you or I may realise it is.

Thus when joe blow average walks into the pawn shop hes looking for Fender or Gibson or ESP or Schecter on the headstock because its the only gauge he knows to classify a worthy purchase....it is strange because Warmoth has placed ads in Guitar World and Guitar for the Practicing Musician for many many years...longer than most guys who build on here have even known of them and still they are not known like Fender or Gibson....

Think about it, Nike is the first to offer a Star their sneekers for free, just wear them on this commercial or during the game...so you and I see a concert or photoshoot and its Fender or Gibson on the cover.....of course with all due respect they pioneered the sounds we know so,its obvious they earned their respect, whatever their practices etc...

Then again the reality is you dont build a custom guitar to your specs for resale value....its a labor of love and the rest dosnt really matter....though it does disappoint should you get stuck selling, not because you didnt get your money back so much as the guy who's buying dosnt appreciate the Custom baby you built as the truley spectacular one of a kind beauty that you intended and slaved for it to be... :toothy11:

 

[Don]

Because when I build a Warmoth it would be spec'ed differently than the next guy's build. I have seen many Warmoths for sale. But I never saw one that would come close to what I would build myself. Why pay premium for something that's not what I want?

Next thing is - how do I know, that I'm not buying a collections of parts that has been ruined by a less than stellar "builder" and/or finisher.?

And a lot of people don't know Warmoth even though they played guitars for years. And those who do will also think about the resell value when buying used.

Here in Denmark I think used Warmoths go for around 700 dollars tops. Even though they represent a value that is 2x to 3x of that.

If you ever consider selling things. Then part the build out and sell each thing separately. It takes longer but you will get a less severe hit financially.
[/quote]

Well i think my build is a pretty particular one. There aren't that many 25.5" Mustangs out there you know. So one should consider its uniqueness (does that word exist? :icon_scratch when buying. Also i assume that someone who wants to buy an high end unique guitar buys it face to face with the seller, after a long inspection and some tests. It would be crazy to spend that many bucks blindly.
Yet the market laws manage to trick me once again, and a 50 years old cheap Valco made of plastic sells easily for 3000$.

 

[Don]

Off topic, I love that guitar!

Thank you, i'm glad you like it  :icon_smile:

Then again the reality is you dont build a custom guitar to your specs for resale value....its a labor of love and the rest dosnt really matter....though it does disappoint should you get stuck selling, not because you didnt get your money back so much as the guy who's buying dosnt appreciate the Custom baby you built as the truley spectacular one of a kind beauty that you intended and slaved for it to be... :toothy11:

Exactly. Yet the same identical guitar when built by you has a value of less than a thousand $, when built by a luthier there would be many people willing to spend 2000+ on it. It's nonsensical.
By the way i'm very envolved in this topic as i would really like to open a lutherie/music shop.

 

[Cagey]

By the way i'm very envolved in this topic as i would really like to open a lutherie/music shop.

Careful. There's an old saying: If you want to make a small fortune in the music business, start with a large fortune.

Even Guitar Center has been slowly learning this lesson. They haven't made a dime since about 2007, even with the influx of many, many millions of dollars from Bain Capitol. They bought up all the mom & pop shops that were either losing money or hanging on by the skin of their teeth by giving lessons to ungrateful brats, then found out musicians are by and large a poor, picky lot. Now the place is essentially the Walmart of musical instrument dealers, and they still can't turn a profit.

 

[lucky13]

By the way i'm very envolved in this topic as i would really like to open a lutherie/music shop.

Careful. There's an old saying: If you want to make a small fortune in the music business, start with a large fortune.

Even Guitar Center has been slowly learning this lesson. They haven't made a dime since about 2007, even with the influx of many, many millions of dollars from Bain Capitol. They bought up all the mom & pop shops that were either losing money or hanging on by the skin of their teeth by giving lessons to ungrateful brats, then found out musicians are by and large a poor, picky lot. Now the place is essentially the Walmart of musical instrument dealers, and they still can't turn a profit.

Thanks for the info Cagey I always wondered how those big companies do, I already knew that musicians as a whole dont make squat so it always puzzled me as to who was buying so much damned equipment that Sam Ash, American Musical Supply, Musicians Friend, Guitar Center and about 3 others I cant remember made any money....it sounds like they arn't....must be a tax write off for even bigger companies than these......

Les Pauls for $12,000,$7000, $4000, $2000, $1000, $700, $500......hmmm...seems like they covered the entire spectrum.....who the heck is the guy that picks the $12,000 guitar off the warehouse pallet.....how do I know he didnt accidentally grab me a $7000 LP because he was too lazy to get a fork lift and climb up on the top shelf to pull a $12,000 LP out of the crate.....  :icon_scratch:

 

[Cagey]

The problem is they DO want to be the Walmart of musical instrument distribution, but people don't buy instruments all the time like groceries, gym socks and light bulbs. It's often a one-time sale, so you need some pretty wide margins to justify putting a couple million dollars on the floor that just sits there waiting for someone to save up for the object of their affection. Then, with the advent of online sales, people go and paw over all the gear in the brick & mortar store, then once they've made a decision they go online and buy it for 30%-40% or more off. Now all that money in store inventory isn't making any money unless they lower their prices to the online levels, which means they can't afford to hire anybody but high school kids to sell it. No pro musician is going to take advice from some part-time, underpaid, inexperienced pimple-faced youth, so the Guitar Centers are in trouble. They'd be better off buying municipal bonds rather than stocking musical instruments if they want to turn a profit.

 

[lucky13]

kinda why Im thinking its a tax write off for an even bigger company, some companies actually want some of their sub companies to lose money to claim a loss so that they can save money come tax time, especially if you can divert funds from one company to the other and still claim a loss or claim an overseas tax code and avoid financial penalties all together, now that we have free trade and deregulation as long as thier numbers are in the millions and they're diversified enough they can use loop hole after loop hole to keep the millions they would normally be paying for taxes.....

Just wish they would give up some of that high end boutique stuff for Walmart prices...lol

 

[Cagey]

Back to the resale thing...

I also wonder how many people really realize what it is they're looking at when they see some of the Warmoth pieces that go up on offer. Where's the point of reference? I mean, who's ever heard of Pau Ferro, or Bloodwood, or Zebrawood? A guitar with a Zebra top on a Black Korina base with an Ebony over Pau Ferro neck and Bareknuckle pickups doesn't sound like anything anybody's ever heard of before. It's a million miles from normal. Nobody's hero plays that kind of bizarro fiddle. Could be it sounds like kukka. And what the hell's a compound radius? What is that? Some kind of Chinese thing? They'll give you $200, because it's got a Floyd and some tuners they can salvage, and maybe resell the body and/or neck to some sucker.

On the other hand, everybody knows what a Rosewood over Maple neck attached to an Alder body fulla noisy single coils and an unmanageable bridge is about. Fender's made 83 bajillion of them. Eric Clapton, Robin Trower and that guy from Pink Floyd all play one. Now how much would you pay? They're lining up around the block for one of those babies. If it's good enough for Eric, then by God, it's good enough for me!

 

[Don]

Nobody's hero plays that kind of bizarro fiddle. Could be it sounds like kukka.

That's got to be one of the most epic Cagey's quote ever!  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Johnny]

Some things, like playing guitar and building guitars, are better left as hobbies.  Even if you're really good at it, chances are you won't be able to do much more than squeak out a living doing it.  And then, why turn something you enjoy into a daily grind.  Of course, there are those who do succeed at it, and I'm very happy for them, but I'll keep my playing in my reprovisioned bedroom and my building in the garage.

 

[stubhead]

Also, Guitar Center, Sam Ash and Musician'd Fiend ARE all the same company, just as Fender, Gretch, Guild, SWR, JacksonCharvelHamerOvationTakamineTacoma, ahem, etc; ARE ALL THE SAME COMPANY.

Slowly but surely, there has been this astonishing, ridiculous, retarded business model that has crept into people's minds, the kind of idiots who, ummm, run things. And that business model says:

YOU DON'T NEED TO TURN A PROFIT,
AS LONG AS YOU HAVE GROWTH.

Since this is the business principal this country has run on for 200+ years, apparently it has taken on the aura of sensibility. Ooops.

 

[mullyman]

I'm going to consider myself EXTREMELY lucky. I think, with shipping included, I paid around 1800 on my first Warmoth build. It was the cherryburst Strat with a really nice birdseye neck. I ended up selling it on Yahoo Auction here in Japan for $1600.00 (give or take a few bucks for the exchange rate). I don't think I'd take it upon myself to make a business venture out of that though.
MULLY
Note that I had played that guitar for more than a year before I sold it

 

[Cagey]

YOU DON'T NEED TO TURN A PROFIT, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE GROWTH.

That's one of the fun parts of business. You can arrange things so you don't make a profit, or at least a very small one, and thereby avoid some of the highest taxes in the civilized world. Simply pay yourself and your key people outrageous salaries and benefits, lease or buy up a pile of fancy cars, planes, real estate, smaller companies, etc. until any profit you might have realized is gone. You can have $8B in revenue with $3B in profit, but if you spend up all that profit on deductible expenses, then your net is tiny. You pay little or no taxes. Everybody's happy except the IRS.