Here is an intresting apples to apples Humbucker vs mini Humbucker Duncans

[Spud]

There is IMO a big difference.

[youtube]TSo6ioT8g1M[/youtube]

 

[DuckBaloo]

Besides the smaller windings, usually thinner wire, and smaller magnets, it also comes down to size of the PU and the length of string that it reads, since the string is vibrating at a different diameter across the two separate coils.  This is what gives the "in-between" positions on a Strat their faux out-of-phase sound.

The wider coils of the full-size HB give the thicker, creamier tone ("smear"), and as you move to mini-HB and then single-coil-sized HJB, you loose than thicker sound and gain more note-to-note clarity.  I'm a huge fan of the old Gibson/Epiphone mini-HB, my favorite PU.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

I don't believe the lil 59 was designed to sound like a Fender guitar with a full size '59 humbucker.    The lil 59 seems like it was designed to make a Strat sound as though it has morphed into a G**son L.P. (single cut mahogany guitar).

 

[Rick]

There are Humbuckers, Mini-Humbuckers and Single Coil sized humbuckers.  Each has a different flavor. 

 

[Spud]

There are Humbuckers, Mini-Humbuckers and Single Coil sized humbuckers.  Each has a different flavor.

I totally get that. I have a Duncan Firebird style mini humbucker in my Tele neck. No pickup is "bad" per say, but the SD (single coil sized humbuckers) are marketed as equivalent/alternative to full sized and they are not. IMO they are not well suited for clean tones, however, I have only personally tried the lil 59 and the lil JB. I sold them.

 

[DuckBaloo]

I totally get that. I have a Duncan Firebird style mini humbucker in my Tele neck. No pickup is "bad" per say, but the SD (single coil sized humbuckers) are marketed as equivalent/alternative to full sized and they are not. IMO they are not well suited for clean tones, however, I have only personally tried the lil 59 and the lil JB. I sold them.

A little bit of trivia, the "normal" SD-embossed minibuckers look like Firebirds pickups, but have a different construction.

• Firebird PUs, and SD Antiquities use A2 slugs as pole-pieces, and have a brighter edge and more cut
• SD Minibuckers have a proprietary design with steel bar slugs as poles and a magnet underneath (A5 or Ceramic), and used to come in three different heat levels, the SM1 "Vintage", SM2 "Custom", and SM3 "Seymourized"
• Les Paul Deluxe/Epiphone mini's use a steel slug for the non-adjustable side and steel poles for the adjustable and have an A2 bar magnet underneath, these split the difference between PAF and Fender SC in tone and output, airing on the Fender side

 

[Spud]

I have both a neck SM-1 and a "Seymourized" SM-3. They both sound good to me. I also have a set of Epiphone USA Firebird pickups. I prefer the Duncans. They all sound different than a Gibson mini with adjustable pole-pieces.

 

[Spud]

I totally get that. I have a Duncan Firebird style mini humbucker in my Tele neck. No pickup is "bad" per say, but the SD (single coil sized humbuckers) are marketed as equivalent/alternative to full sized and they are not. IMO they are not well suited for clean tones, however, I have only personally tried the lil 59 and the lil JB. I sold them.

A little bit of trivia, the "normal" SD-embossed minibuckers look like Firebirds pickups, but have a different construction.

• Firebird PUs, and SD Antiquities use A2 slugs as pole-pieces, and have a brighter edge and more cut
• SD Minibuckers have a proprietary design with steel bar slugs as poles and a magnet underneath (A5 or Ceramic), and used to come in three different heat levels, the SM1 "Vintage", SM2 "Custom", and SM3 "Seymourized"
• Les Paul Deluxe/Epiphone mini's use a steel slug for the non-adjustable side and steel poles for the adjustable and have an A2 bar magnet underneath, these split the difference between PAF and Fender SC in tone and output, airing on the Fender side

I am not sure Firebird pickups ever had a2 slugs in them. https://www.heliotricity.com/firebird-pickups/

 

[Rick]

DuckBaloo,
You are the fount!  Do you know anything about the construction of DiMarzio mini hums?  The Vintage MiniHum neck model is one of my favorites.

 

[DuckBaloo]

I totally get that. I have a Duncan Firebird style mini humbucker in my Tele neck. No pickup is "bad" per say, but the SD (single coil sized humbuckers) are marketed as equivalent/alternative to full sized and they are not. IMO they are not well suited for clean tones, however, I have only personally tried the lil 59 and the lil JB. I sold them.

A little bit of trivia, the "normal" SD-embossed minibuckers look like Firebirds pickups, but have a different construction.

• Firebird PUs, and SD Antiquities use A2 slugs as pole-pieces, and have a brighter edge and more cut
• SD Minibuckers have a proprietary design with steel bar slugs as poles and a magnet underneath (A5 or Ceramic), and used to come in three different heat levels, the SM1 "Vintage", SM2 "Custom", and SM3 "Seymourized"
• Les Paul Deluxe/Epiphone mini's use a steel slug for the non-adjustable side and steel poles for the adjustable and have an A2 bar magnet underneath, these split the difference between PAF and Fender SC in tone and output, airing on the Fender side

I am not sure Firebird pickups ever had a2 slugs in them. https://www.heliotricity.com/firebird-pickups/

From your linked site:

What Do Firebird Guitar Pickups Sound Like?

Firebird pups occupy an interesting and unique place in the sonic landscape. One of things about them is that traditionally they are fairly low output. Gibson did reissue them in 1990 and those versions are quite different, using ceramic magnets and are wound much hotter, I’m not talking about those.

The originals by Gibson used AlNiCo magnets and the DCR on vintage originals was generally around 6.5k, some higher and some lower depending on actual thickness of the “42awg” wire. I’ve seen some 60s vintage bridge pups reaching 7k. Bicentennials are typically between 6 – 6.5k, often on the lower end of that spectrum. Here are some sound clips demonstrating how they sound:

It doesn't say A2 or A5, but the consensus is A2.

Les Paul Deluxe/Epiphone construction...

Firebird construction:

Seymour Duncan is more like the former, except with two steel lugs.

 

[DuckBaloo]

DuckBaloo,
You are the fount!  Do you know anything about the construction of DiMarzio mini hums?  The Vintage MiniHum neck model is one of my favorites.

Ceramic bar magnet underneath, six non-adjustable steel poles per coil.

 

[Spud]

I see what you are saying. Also, the diagram definitively shows that no Firebird pickup used "alnico 2 Slugs" as pole-pieces (per your post), rather they had alnico 2 BAR magnets instead.

Correct? :icon_thumright:

 

[DuckBaloo]

I see what you are saying. Also, the diagram definitively shows that no Firebird pickup used "alnico 2 Slugs" as pole-pieces (per your post), rather they had alnico 2 BAR magnets instead.

Correct? :icon_thumright:

I mixed up it up with the steel slug

Bar Slug for Deluxe Mini Humbucker

 

[Rick]

Wow, so the dimarzio is a really a mini humbucker.

 

[Spud]

From the information I can find, the Duncan SM-1 is a vintage correct 2X bar magnets (albeit A5's)
but the SM-2 and 3 are not. I am now interested in de-soldering the cover and having a look myself but am afraid to ruin one as I do like them. If the SM-1 was good enough for Johnny Winter, it is certainly better than I need!! :laughing7:

Anyway all very interesting!

 

[TBurst Std]

Thank you for that. I was going to rip out my hair noting the construction of  a Firebird pickup shares very little with a mini humbucker.  Thinking it does likens a 2 door convertible to a 2 door pickup.  Yes their both cars, and yes they both have 2 doors,,,,, but,,,,,