Help With Wiring Diagram Please

[LooseCannon]

Hey guys, I have 2 humbuckers and a 5 way superswitch, I want to get this configuration:
1. Bridge Series Humbucker
2. Bridge Single Coil (South)
3. Bridge(S) + Neck(N)
4. Neck Single Coil (South)
5. Neck Series Humbucker

I've found the following diagram: http://www.guitarelectronics.com/product/WD2HH5L11_00/Guitar_Wiring_Diagram_2_Humbuckers5Way_Lever_Switch1_Volume1_Tone.html

My problem is that I can't find the logic in it. If we compare it to a similliar diagram by SD: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2hum_1vol_1tone_super5way

The SD diagram seems a lot more logical with the red and white wires going in the 2 and 4 positions, however the SD diagram has both humbuckers in the middle position.

So my question is how can I modify the SD diagram to have Bridge(S) + Neck(N) in the middle position?

Thanks!

 

[Dan025]

in the seymour duncan diagram it always shorts the coils to ground but you may have to do it differently to get it to be humbucking with both pickups shunted.

the other diagram shunts the neck to ground in one position and to output in another this is how it gets the north and then south from this pickup. the problem with this is that the coil can become an antenna for interference when it is shunted to hot. i would only do this if the pickup is covered.

 

[LooseCannon]

Thanks Dan, so what do you recommend I should do?

 

[Dan025]

let mew spend alittle time with it, this stuff is like a little puzzle for me, some do sudoku, i mess with guitars

are you married to having the neck pickup use neck (south) in position 4?

in position 3 did you want the outside or the inside coils?

 

[LooseCannon]

Hey Dan Thanks for the help.

It doesn't matter which coil is on position 4, as long as it's split. Also in position 3 It doesn't matter which 2 coils are on, as long as they are from both humbuckers and are in parallel and noise cancelling.

I agree those 4 pole 5 way switches are puzzles, hard to figure it out.

 

[LooseCannon]

BTW I accidentaly put the neck humbucker in reverse (screws towards the bridge).
Does that make a difference? Should I flip it around?

 

[Mor Paul]

No difference.

 

[Dan025]

little difference,

start with the seymour duncan wiring diagram,

on the neck pup hook the black(north start) to the green(south start) instead of white(north finnish) to red(south finnish)

red/south finnish is now output and white/north finnish is now ground

the coil tap pair for the neck pup should go to position 3 as well as 4 (assuming we are calling the neck pup only position 5)

the coil tap pair for the bridge should go to position 2 as well as 3

 

[LooseCannon]

Thanks Dan.
Are you saying I should switch the red and white with the green and black because my neck pup is reversed? Or so i'll have the South Coil in one pup and the North Coil in the other?

If so what combination would that give me?

 

[Dan025]

not because it is reversed, that doesn't matter, turning it around doesn't change the phase.

it is to get a north coil with a south coil.

now you get a north and a south and since the the neck pup is turned around that will still be the inner coils.

 

[LooseCannon]

Thanks Dan. Are you sure about replacing the green\black with the white\red? It doesn't seem they're interchangable since one pair is start and one is finish.

 

[Dan025]

Thanks Dan. Are you sure about replacing the green\black with the white\red? It doesn't seem they're interchangable since one pair is start and one is finish.

as long as you keep either star together or finnish together they can go either way, remember it is an AC auido signal and the electricity moves both ways so if you look at them individually you can wire it in either direction and sound still comes out.

a simple comparison would be two batteries in line in a flash light. all i did was to switch the position of the batteries but kept there relative direction(polarity in the case of a battery)  the same. i did not turn the batteries around just put the rear battery in first.

there are many combos that will work with a humbucker and it is never necessary to flip the magnet unless you have a specific reason to do it like you want the inside coils but there is a logo that you want facing the right way, or the coils have a different sound from each other and you want to use that in a specific way.

now as far as color code are you using seymour duncan pickups? if not look at this.      http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=color_codes

take your time and think write it down, figure out the color codes beforehand and give your self something to look at, you don't want to be in the middle of something and then figure out the logic for why something is not like the picture, it is too easy to make mistakes that way.

 

[LooseCannon]

Thanks Dan. It's still not clear to me, as the start wires are soldered to the begining of the winding and the finish are soldered to the end, I can't see how that would work the other way around?

I've looked at the guitar electronics scheme again and it seems that what it does is coil shunt rather than coil split- using the output to the volume knob to bypass one coil, and position 3 of the neck pickup is connected to ground to select the north coil.

 

[Dan025]

well yes it is a shunt, that uses the least # of connectors posible.

a humbucker is wired in series so the voltage is added like two batteries in a flashlight. the coils are wound in the same direction start to finnish but since each coil has an opposite magnetic polarity the actual output is from the strings is opposite.

so now you wire one coil opposite the other. this does 2 things. it puts the electrical output from the strings in phase and it also puts interference which is not subject to magnetic polarity out of phase and thus cancels the interference and only the interference.

by swapping the wires in the way that i instructed you have changed the sequence of the coils so now it is the north coil instead of the south is conected to ground.

ok forget that it has an AC signal. just to demostrate look at the green as - from the south coil

look at red as + from the south coil

white as - north

and black as + north

just like you put the batteries + to - in a flashlight you do the same here. all i did was change the order of the batteries. "-"  still goes to ground and "+" still goes to output

 

[LooseCannon]

I understand your example, the problem is that it seems the white should be + since it's the coil's finish and the black - since it's the coil's start?

 

[LooseCannon]

I wired everything but I have a problem- the bridge pup isn't working. Could it be because in the SD diagram the common terminals on the opposite ends aren't connected?

 

[Dan025]

aren't connected to what? in the duncan diagram the commons for the poles that select the pickups are connected togther and conected to the volume/tone circuit. the commons on the shunt poles are conected together and conected to ground.

are you useing seymour duncan pickups? can you take a photo? should i draw the diagram, i know words aren't as clear as pictures.

 

[LooseCannon]

I wired it a bit different than the Seymour Duncan Diagram:

In the SD diagram the neck pickup's black wire goes to the upper left pole, the red and white goes to the upper right pole.
The bridge pup's black wire goes to the lower left pole, the red and white goes to the lower right pole.

The way I did it:

The neck pickup's black wire goes to the upper left pole, the red and white goes to the lower left pole.
The bridge pup's black wire goes to the upper right pole, the red and white goes to the lower right pole.

So I basiclly only replaced the poles positions, does it make a difference? I've also jumpered the red and white wires to position 3 on both pups.

I'm using Rio Grande pickups, I know the black and green wires are the same as SD, but I don't know which is north and which is south on the red and white, that's why I didn't switch the colors like you said to get opposite polarities.

The neck pickup is working on postions 1,2 and 3, it's split on 2 and 3.
The bridge isn't working at all- both of the right poles aren't working.

 

[LooseCannon]

Ohh BTW:

On the SD diagram there are two poles on the left side which are jumpered and the lower one is connected to the volume pot- i've connected the upper one to the volume pot.

There are two poles on the right side which are jumpered and the lower one is connected to ground- i've connected the upper one to ground.

 

[Dan025]

they should be jumpered as per the diagram