Grounding the arm on a Gotoh 510

[Tyrannocaster]

I've always used the old-style vintage Strat trems, but my new Warmoth has a Gotoh 501, similar to what the Am Std comes with - two posts, and the arm has a plastic ring you tighten with a setscrew to adjust the tension, which is nice.

What I hadn't counted on is that that plastic ring insulates the arm at times while you are using the trem, and if your hands aren't on the strings (or some other grounded metal part) when that happens, you will get an intermittent connection which crackles. I noticed this because I was doing some recording of tones generated by tapping the guitar neck with high gain and then using the trem (open strings, so no fingers on the strings). Granted, this is not a common situation! In normal usage you probably wouldn't notice this.

I solved the problem by using a piece of flexible ground braid and running it under the bridge spring of the first string (the spring holds it in place), then running it up the side of the arm and locking it with a plastic tie. It's a kludge but it works, although we'll see what happens when I need to remove the arm sometime.

I'm curious to know if anyone else has come up with another way to deal with this.

 

[stratamania]

To be honest I have never experienced this when using a 510 tremolo. Is your trem claw grounded?

 

[Tyrannocaster]

Yes, and the pg and body cavity are fully shielded. There's no extra noise at all when I take my hands off the guitar, so I know the shielding is working. I have never encountered this before either, but I've never had a tremolo with a plastic ring around the arm, either. It took me a while to track the source of the static (or whatever you want to call it), but I finally realized that at times, as you move the arm, it loses contact with its ground and I assume that's via the plastic ring. Adding the separate ground fixed it.

I didn't notice this until I was messing with high gain and had my hands off the strings; in normal playing, I don't think it's a problem; most of the time you have your hands on the strings anyway. But when you have a totally shielded guitar, any extra noise really stands out.

 

[TBurst Std]

Sorry, something doesn’t make sense here. 

If the arm has no continuity to a grounded bridge, then how does the circuit even know if the arm is there in place or if you are touching it?

May I suggest you look at for them
Claw ground for a cold ground.

 

[Rick]

Never had a problem like this with the gotoh trem.  I swapped the trem claw with a tremelno and screwed on the grounding wire.

 

[Tyrannocaster]

I've never had a problem like this either. That's why I posted this, LOL. The trem ground is good; it's not a cold joint, and the guitar has zero other electrical issues - I would expect problems elsewhere too if it were a bad joint. The Delrin ring appears (to me) to sometimes get in the way of the arm staying grounded; I can't think of anything else that would explain this and be fixed by the kludge I put in. You would not normally notice this because your hands would be on the strings but if your hand is only on the trem arm and you have high gain there's plainly something going on, though it's quiet and it's activated by trem usage.

Somehow, I always seem be be able to find some weird problem that nobody's ever seen.  :laughing7:

 

[Tyrannocaster]

Addendum: I could, of course, be totally wrong about the Delrin ring causing this; it's just that that's the only idea I've had so far. It really doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[mayfly]

Somehow, I always seem be be able to find some weird problem that nobody's ever seen.  :laughing7:

You, Sir, have a gift.  You should get into the testing field and find all the stupid bugs that are out in the world.

 

[Tyrannocaster]

i went back and reflowed the solder joint on the claw, although it looked fine to me. I am playing and working on a project now so it will have to wait for me to take my kludge off; it involves loosening the upper E so I can get under its spring with the ground braid.

 

[Tyrannocaster]

It wasn't the trem claw solder joint.

 

[stratamania]

Have you checked your grounding and grounding wires for continuity. It would not be the first time a broken wire that appears intact could be to blame.

 

[Tyrannocaster]

Have you checked your grounding and grounding wires for continuity. It would not be the first time a broken wire that appears intact could be to blame.

Yes, I looked it all over yesterday when I had it apart to swap loaded pickguards. It's done the same thing with two different loaded pgs, and at least one of them had no such issue in the other guitar. I will check the one I just took out of the Warmoth when I put that one in one of my other bodies, possibly later today, but I really don't think that's it.

It's just a really weird thing! You'd never notice it live, but I do a lot of recording and everything is under a magniscope there. Like, if you're using some gain and you hit a chord and trem-warble it as it fades; when it gets softer you can hear it - when it's happening. It was driving me nuts before I put the braid kludge on it.

 

[stratamania]

The Braid Kludge, sounds like a good name for something  ccasion14:

Anyway hope you get to the bottom of it, I am not a fan of noise myself.

 

[kdas3]

Just chiming in almost 2 years later because I thought it was important to let OP know they're not going crazy, contrary to the other posts in this thread.

This seems to happen with tremolos which have some sort of nylon sleeve which helps affix the tremolo arm to the tremolo. For me, it happens on my Wilkinson WVS1302p, Gotoh 510, and Wilkinson Gotoh VS100N. It doesn't happen on my Ibanez tremolo which has a metal nut to affix it. Why it happens is because when using the bar, the bar itself moves within the tremolo block, intermittently losing physical connection with the bottom of the tremolo. Since the nylon sleeve is not conductive, once the tremolo arm loses contact with the bottom of the tremolo, it's no longer grounded.

Most guitarists won't notice this, but if you play in an environment where random noises are unacceptable (e.g., jazz big band) or do a lot of recording, then yes, this is annoying! If you want to hear it and have a tremolo with a nylon sleeve like this, just put some gain (but not too much!) on and wiggle the trem bar (without grounding the strings with your hand).

I've lived with it for years, and when I do recording and this is an issue I just temporarily ran a small piece of copper foil from the bar to the tremolo haha...but I think I will try OPs suggestion.