Grain Fillers...for Alder and Mahogany

[JPOL007]

Does anybody know of a grain filler that will not shrink over time and work on Alder and Mahogany? Keep seeing videos for non-shrinking clear filler but not sure if it really works over long periods of time.

Thanks guys

 

[Cagey]

I've not seen one that is wood-specific, and few of them shrink any appreciable amount these days. It's not like wood filler or wall spackling - the voids grain filler is designed to fill are generally relatively small/narrow, and the filler is thin enough that you don't use much, and if you need to, you use more than one coat. As with any kind of void-filling compound, always give the material plenty of time to dry/cure between coats. Like all finish work, you need gobs of time/patience to get good results.

Alder rarely needs filler, but Mahogany and similarly-grained woods can take maybe 3 passes before you're happy.

 

[Rick]

I'd use no grain filler on Alder, it's so smooth.  On my current alder project I'm coming up with no grain marking and I'm in the buffing stage.  I've used grain filler I bought at home depot on my swamp ash body tele.  It was a pain to put on, put on, then sand, put  on then sand, about 20 times before smooth.  There has to be something better for mahogany.  I don't know it though.  I was probably using wood filler, and not grain filler.

 

[JPOL007]

I've not seen one that is wood-specific, and few of them shrink any appreciable amount these days. It's not like wood filler or wall spackling - the voids grain filler is designed to fill are generally relatively small/narrow, and the filler is thin enough that you don't use much, and if you need to, you use more than one coat. As with any kind of void-filling compound, always give the material plenty of time to dry/cure between coats. Like all finish work, you need gobs of time/patience to get good results.

Alder rarely needs filler, but Mahogany and similarly-grained woods can take maybe 3 passes before you're happy.

Thanks for the help. I have a Mahogany neck coming from Warmoth and saw where that wood needed to be grain filled.

 

[JPOL007]

I'd use no grain filler on Alder, it's so smooth.  On my current alder project I'm coming up with no grain marking and I'm in the buffing stage.  I've used grain filler I bought at home depot on my swamp ash body tele.  It was a pain to put on, put on, then sand, put  on then sand, about 20 times before smooth.  There has to be something better for mahogany.  I don't know it though.  I was probably using wood filler, and not grain filler.

The Alder is smooth on one side (treble) and the (bass) side has some open lines running from top to bottom. I may be calling these line the wrong name. This Alder has what looks like flaming in Maple as part of the grain pattern. Kind of like the swirls in a finger print. Is that normal?

 

[Cagey]

"Lines" implies they're straight, so I'd be sure they're not glue joints before filling them. If so, you might not even want to use that piece as is.

Grain can swirl, although it's pretty rare in Alder. But, all bets are off when it comes to wood grain. Mother nature has her own ideas about how things should look  :laughing7:

 

[Rick]

Typically alder has what they call beauty marks and they are just part of the wood.  They are like a mineral streak. They usually manifest themselves as a dark line.  Sometimes you're lucky and you get a piece with chatoyance, and sometimes that might appear as a whorl.  If you got a piece with some character like that you're lucky.

 

[bagman67]

Photos help.  I have nothing to add to Cagey and Rick's worthwhile and knowledgeable responses.


Yr. Humble Svt.,


Bagman

 

[Rick]

https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=30424.15

Look at the marks in my jazzmaster body.  They are perfectly flat and I wish there were more of them.

Actually, some pics of your piece would be good idea.  Bagman ='s smart.

 

[JPOL007]

I was thinking photos would help this out as soon as I get home from work :doh: Hindsight being the best sight... I should have taken photos before asking the question :laughing7:

 

[Rick]

The beauty marks are the reason why I went with dye, rather than covering them up.  They are something to be celebrated, not hidden.

 

[JPOL007]

The beauty marks are the reason why I went with dye, rather than covering them up.  They are something to be celebrated, not hidden.

That is nice and these marks look like your beauty marks. The fingerprint pattern is just where the back has a lot more sanding to be done. The uneven spots give it the swirl look. I just didn't look at it very good when I got home from class last week. Here are some photos of the grain and a sample piece of the body I'm trying to dye. Any suggestions to help with the dye job would be greatly appreciated. I'm using TransTint; dye black and bright red. The sample has been dyed black then sanded back with 240 grit. The bright red was applied and let dry then sanded lightly with 240 grit. I applied another coat of bright red and let i dry overnight. There is a light spray coat (rattle can) of non-waxed shellac on top of the dye. The light area on the right of the photo worries me. Should it be darker or maybe i can add some yellow. I want the final product to be very glossy and as vivid as possible.

 

[Rick]

My only advice is to go easy with with sanding between coats, after the dark base I use 400 grit and go very easy.  Then follow with an easy rub of 0000 steel wool.  Use a tack cloth and be super clean between coats wiping with naphtha to get all the dust.  After tha t probably two coats of the lighter shade with only a gentle rub of 0000 steel wool between coats.  Some use sanding pads rather than steel wool.

 

[JPOL007]

My only advice is to go easy with with sanding between coats, after the dark base I use 400 grit and go very easy.  Then follow with an easy rub of 0000 steel wool.  Use a tack cloth and be super clean between coats wiping with naphtha to get all the dust.  After tha t probably two coats of the lighter shade with only a gentle rub of 0000 steel wool between coats.  Some use sanding pads rather than steel wool.

Thanks Rick. Do you sand until only the low spots are highlighted after the black coat?

 

[AirCap]

My only advice is to go easy with with sanding between coats, after the dark base I use 400 grit and go very easy.  Then follow with an easy rub of 0000 steel wool.  Use a tack cloth and be super clean between coats wiping with naphtha to get all the dust.  After tha t probably two coats of the lighter shade with only a gentle rub of 0000 steel wool between coats.  Some use sanding pads rather than steel wool.

NEVER use steel wool. Use Scotchbrite. It doesn't rust, doesn't break down into little crumbs that hurt your fingers, and it isn't magnetic. The tiny bits get into EVERYTHING, and contaminate it. Steel wool is EVIL.

 

[Rick]

It’s not so much low spots but rather features like birds eyes, chatoyance, tree rings etc .  It’s a delicate balance between emphasizing the features while abraiding the spaces in between the features,  as before go easy with sanding.  I’ve found steel wool not to be an issue as long as I’m clean, wiping with naphtha and a tack cloth.  Its less of an issue with dying because it’s not sticky.

 

[JPOL007]

It’s not so much low spots but rather features like birds eyes, chatoyance, tree rings etc .  It’s a delicate balance between emphasizing the features while abraiding the spaces in between the features,  as before go easy with sanding.  I’ve found steel wool not to be an issue as long as I’m clean, wiping with naphtha and a tack cloth.  Its less of an issue with dying because it’s not sticky.

Sweet...I'll use more patience :icon_thumright:Thanks again

 

[Rick]

When it comes to the top coat if you have any doubt about your ability, use the abrasive pads.

 

[Cagey]

Hard rubber blocks (and other shapes) are your best friend when it comes to sanding for finish work. Trying to do it by just holding your abrasive by hand is asking for uneven results. Also, stay far, far away from steel wool. I don't even keep any in the house, so I'm not tempted.

 

[JPOL007]

Hard rubber blocks (and other shapes) are your best friend when it comes to sanding for finish work. Trying to do it by just holding your abrasive by hand is asking for uneven results. Also, stay far, far away from steel wool. I don't even keep any in the house, so I'm not tempted.

Cool... I invested pretty heavily in some hard rubber shapes when working in the Tele neck inlay project. I think I'll take this sample back down to bare wood. This will allow me to get the black heavier in the right places then work on the right amount of red in other areas. Might try some lemon yellow to cover any light spots red doesn't cover well. Thanks for the help :icon_thumright: