Gotoh 510 Tremolo Installation

Ozopart

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I am just starting my strat build and as a first step trying to install the tremolo. I put the tremolo into the front of the body and pushed the two "notches' flush with the two studs. When I do this if you hold the body up and look towards the heel of the body the tremolo is flush with the studs, but not flat against the body. Is this correct?
Next, When I go to the back cavity, I screwed in the heel plate to about 1/2 to 1 inch from the body. Next, I hooked the 3 springs in. This was very hard to do and I needed to stretch each spring holding it with pliers to get it to reach the hooks on the heel plate.
Once this is done everything seems snug. But should I be able to put in the tremolo bar and push it up and down and have the back of the tremolo/bridge move up and down? Mine is so snug that there is no up/down movement possible. At present I don't have a neck or strings on the guitar.
Sorry if this has been asked before. I looked online for instructions and couldn't find anything. Since this is my first build I confess to ignorance, and apologize in advance for not understanding this installation process better.
 
Here are some pictures. Hopefully they will help.
 

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No need to panic. Don't worry about the tremolo not sitting right until after the guitar is assembled and strings are on. After that you'll need to tune the guitar and adjust the springs in back until you find equilibrium between the tension of the springs and strings, where the tremolo plate is parallel with the body. It usually takes a little trial and error, because as you loosen the springs the strings go flat. Then you tune the strings back to pitch and springs become tighter again.


It takes a bit to get it just right.
 
Thanks Aaron. It just seemed strange that the tremolo wasn't moving, but what you say makes sense. It will be a while before I get to the point of tuning things but at least for now I can rest easy. I appreciate your help.
 
As a follow up to my first question, I know have my build complete with the exception of the string trees and the strap buttons. I am having a difficult time keeping the guitar in tune. I think the issue is with my Gotoh bridge adjustment. I have been tweaking it but without good instructions I am having trouble. Online people say the heel of the bridge should be a bit off of the body surface, about 3/64", and the front, by the nuts should be more flush, mine is exactly opposite that. If anyone know where there are good instructions for adjusting the Gotoh bridge, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
Do you have any books like dan erlewines' how to make your electric guitar play great or repair guide?  The first thing you gotta do is put on those strap buttons and string trees. 
 
I start off by sanding a block to fit between the tremolo block and the body to where the bridge is sitting as Aaron suggested.  I don't even put the tremolo springs in until I get ready to intonate.
Once I have them in, With tension still against the block and keeping it firmly in hardtail rigidity, I set action and intonate, then I slowly start to tighten the claw until the block frees itself now that tension has been relieved.  I keep the claw evenly perpendicular so that it's not ad some odd angle.  After that, it's just a few screws of the claw screws to get it floating in tune, and then I can stretch the strings and retune and I'm good to go.

I never liked the idea of constant tuning and retuning to get it into position, so I treat it like a hard tail up to the point that I mentioned earlier.  After that, a few turns and it's done.
 
TonyFlyingSquirrel said:
I start off by sanding a block to fit between the tremolo block and the body to where the bridge is sitting as Aaron suggested.  I don't even put the tremolo springs in until I get ready to intonate.
Once I have them in, With tension still against the block and keeping it firmly in hardtail rigidity, I set action and intonate, then I slowly start to tighten the claw until the block frees itself now that tension has been relieved.  I keep the claw evenly perpendicular so that it's not ad some odd angle.  After that, it's just a few screws of the claw screws to get it floating in tune, and then I can stretch the strings and retune and I'm good to go.

I never liked the idea of constant tuning and retuning to get it into position, so I treat it like a hard tail up to the point that I mentioned earlier.  After that, a few turns and it's done.
Listening to all of your great feedback, and following it up with internet research, and watching some of the videos in the sticky stratmania thread, I confess to being still confused. I am clearly not as handy as all of you are.
At this point my guitar is built, strings are on, and I can play it, although with the tuning issues and bridge adjustment issues I have mentioned. I can get the Dan Erlewine book if all of you really think it is good. I have seen mixed reviews.
"Tonyflyingsquirrel": I assume you are doing all of this with the strings already on the guitar? Also, I am unclear as to what the block is that you have sanded. How big is it, what type of wood, etc.
I currently have 3 springs installed, and my claw is at an angle with the screw heads not sitting flush with the back of the claw. Not sure how to get it to be non-angled as I have tried and failed and I worry about too much screwing and un-screwing of the 2 screws holding the claw into the body.
If I understand correctly, I can start where I am at now and do the following: (1) loosen the strings, (2) put wood block in, (3) remove middle spring, (4) loosen (or) tighten claw screws until the heel of the tremolo floats, (5) adjust action, (6) retune guitar, (7) loosen (or) tighten claw screws until wood block "falls out", (8) put middle spring back in.
I probably have these steps out of order.
 
Look at the second video from the Fender custom shop in the sticky thread I posted above. That shows using a block which is what TFS was describing.
 
stratamania said:
Look at the second video from the Fender custom shop in the sticky thread I posted above. That shows using a block which is what TFS was describing.
I apologize for being "thick" but I did watch that video, I am just unclear as to how to make the block that he inserts. I will research further to see if I can figure that out. It is a bit "funny" but clearly this topic is controversial as the comments in that video are split between it is great and it is bad. Also, I am going to try to learn a lot more about why people buy floating trems and then go to pains to block them permanently so as to emulate a hardtail. I guess they do that because they didn't build their guitars and the stock parts are floating?
 
Ozopart said:
stratamania said:
Look at the second video from the Fender custom shop in the sticky thread I posted above. That shows using a block which is what TFS was describing.
I apologize for being "thick" but I did watch that video, I am just unclear as to how to make the block that he inserts. I will research further to see if I can figure that out. It is a bit "funny" but clearly this topic is controversial as the comments in that video are split between it is great and it is bad. Also, I am going to try to learn a lot more about why people buy floating trems and then go to pains to block them permanently so as to emulate a hardtail. I guess they do that because they didn't build their guitars and the stock parts are floating?

There are a couple of reasons for temporarily blocking the tremolo, and I don't know about the blocks you can buy but my blocks are only put in on an ad hoc basis when I either want to make tuning easier or transmit less vibration between strings in the trem.

I made mine by carving down a few pieces of basswood which is soft enough to be super easy to carve and strong enough to work for blocking quite well. This took me all of 5 minutes
 
You are just trying to stabilize the bridge during setup. Instead of blocks, try 2 credit cards between the base of the bridge and guitar top.
 
What you make a block out of for set up purposes is not super critical. You could make it from a wedge shaped piece of wood with some tape wrapped around it. Wedged so you do not need to be super critical on measurements and use it on more than one instrument. Tape to avoid scratching something. All the block needs to do is set the trem in the position you want it. Once you have the guitar set up and in tune you adjust the claw so the block can be removed you will need to retune by adjusting the screws of the claw. You are attaining equilibrium between spring and string tension essentially. When the trem comes back to tune with the claw adjustment it must be back in the position that was set by the block otherwise it would not be in tune. It is easier to set up with a temporary block as you are dealing with a fixed position. It is basically a method so you are not constantly chasing your tail trying to adjust one thing that puts something else out.

Some folks like the "tone" of a strat trem that has been permanently blocked for the reason the springs add something. Personally I prefer trems to float and if I want to play a hardtail I pick up a Tele or Les Paul for example.
 
stratamania said:
What you make a block out of for set up purposes is not super critical. You could make it from a wedge shaped piece of wood with some tape wrapped around it. Wedged so you do not need to be super critical on measurements and use it on more than one instrument. Tape to avoid scratching something. All the block needs to do is set the trem in the position you want it. Once you have the guitar set up and in tune you adjust the claw so the block can be removed you will need to retune by adjusting the screws of the claw. You are attaining equilibrium between spring and string tension essentially. When the trem comes back to tune with the claw adjustment it must be back in the position that was set by the block otherwise it would not be in tune. It is easier to set up with a temporary block as you are dealing with a fixed position. It is basically a method so you are not constantly chasing your tail trying to adjust one thing that puts something else out.

Some folks like the "tone" of a strat trem that has been permanently blocked for the reason the springs add something. Personally I prefer trems to float and if I want to play a hardtail I pick up a Tele or Les Paul for example.
That makes a lot of sense and I at least now understand what is happening. Thanks for the explanation. I just seem to be having trouble with the different variables involved in getting the initial setup "right". The 2 nuts on the front of the trem might be too close to the pickguard. I hope not as I really hate to have to remove it and shave it down a bit. The point here is I don't know if the nuts are adjusted correctly. This is one variable. Another variable is the saddle adjustment, at least I think that is what it is called. The 2 tiny hex screws for each string, just behind the front of the trem. I have played around with them to adjust the action but again being inexperienced, I might be causing more harm than good. This seems to be variable #2. Then there is the initial setup of the claw and the 2 claw screws. I am not sure I have this right as the claw is not parallel to the body and the heads of the screws are not flush with the vertical part of the claw. This seems to be variable #3. Finally, there are the 3 springs, at least I am using 3 springs which is what most people recommend. This is variable #4. I do a lot of coffee roasting and to get that down it is best to only vary one of the variables at a time. But in this case I think they might all be off and I don't know how to reach a good starting point. I am beginning to think maybe I should take it to a guitar tech for the initial setup so maybe at least they can get all the variables in sync as a good starting point.
 
I fully string the instrument to pitch, no springs in the claw, tension fully resting on the block, which doesn’t matter what kind of wood, it’s just a spacer to make sure that the bridge plate sits level/adjacent to the body.  I fully set up the instrument with truss rod adjustment, action, relief, and then intonation before bring the bridge into a floating position by adding the springs with the amount and orientation to the customers request, wether it’s all perpendicular or if you have thee splayed springs in a “W” orientation.
 
Yes there are a lot of variables though...

I just seem to be having trouble with the different variables involved in getting the initial setup "right". The 2 nuts on the front of the trem might be too close to the pickguard.

In addition to variables there are datums. One of those is in the quote above and it is not the pickguard. If I assume by nuts you mean the posts that go into the inserts that the bridge mounts and pivots on that is in a specific place. If the pickguard is really too close you don't move the bridge.

Key Datums for guitars:

Centre Line.
Bridge
Nut

Those have to be in specific positions...I am not being pedantic but the bridge can not be too close to something but something can be too close to the bridge.

But as there are no pictures being provided there is nothing visual to check or suggest something against.

It sounds to me like that you may be in need of getting a tech or someone who has more experience to help you.
 
stratamania said:
Yes there are a lot of variables though...

I just seem to be having trouble with the different variables involved in getting the initial setup "right". The 2 nuts on the front of the trem might be too close to the pickguard.

In addition to variables there are datums. One of those is in the quote above and it is not the pickguard. If I assume by nuts you mean the posts that go into the inserts that the bridge mounts and pivots on that is in a specific place. If the pickguard is really too close you don't move the bridge.

Key Datums for guitars:

Centre Line.
Bridge
Nut

Those have to be in specific positions...I am not being pedantic but the bridge can not be too close to something but something can be too close to the bridge.

But as there are no pictures being provided there is nothing visual to check or suggest something against.

It sounds to me like that you may be in need of getting a tech or someone who has more experience to help you.
I truly appreciate what you are saying. And I absolutely agree with it. I probably spoke incorrectly about the posts and the pickguard. I did mean what you said, the pickguard may be too close to the bridge. In that case I would, I guess, have to shave down the edge of the pickguard a bit. It is firmly place around the neck and routing so my novice assumption is it might just need a bit of shaving down.
I can provide some pictures but I don't know if they will help. If there were better instructions for installation, setup and adjustment of the Gotoh bridge it would help a novice like me. But it seems to be more of an art than a science. My fear is that if I keep messing with the two screws that go into the body and hold the claw, I will ruin the hole they go into and make it too large and the screws will not fit in tightly. Being a novice this might be an unjust fear but I am just afraid to mess with them much more without a guitar tech's help.
Thanks for helping. Now I just need to find a good guitar tech.
 
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