Gotoh 510 tremolo bridge routing question

thunderbolt

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After owning Wilkinson/Gotoh VS100 and VSVG bridges, I'm thinking trying a "true" Gotoh EV510T-BS bridge (http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product=ev510t-bs) on a new build. However does anyone know which routing option on the Warmoth bridge routing page I should choose (Am Std or Wilkinson)? Hopefully I don't have to do the routing myself.

I did some research here but can't find a definite conclusion; must be the confusing Gotoh model names.

Thanks in advance!
 
I just did this and paid the up charge for the custom routing. They have the 510T routing figured out and the EV510 is basically the same. There was no obvious conclusion to this like you said. I can't remember my thought process exactly but I think that the American Standard was closest and you might have to enlarge something for the trem arm holder. My concern about the VS100 I feel like had to to with how the trem was located on the posts.

In the end I may have just thrown money away but who knows? Gotoh designs these I believe as direct replacements for Strats. I've just ordered a bunch of Gotoh stuff from G-Jax (Japanese company). They carry the entire Gotoh catalog. Great service, I'd highly recommend them. Great prices too even with the shipping.
 
Well, you can compare the Gotoh part with their version of the Wilky VS100 dimensions and draw a few conclusions vis-a-vis compatibility.  THe difference in center-to-center measurement for the stud holes is 0.4 mm.  The string spacing is 54mm for both.  STuds are identical.  The 510 block and related measurements suggest to me that the WIlky might benefit from a bigger cavity, probably because the 510 has that tapered block.  Otherwise I reckon they're direct replacements for each other.  If you get the wilky cavity I'd be surprised if you had any slop to contend with.


But as always, CALL OR EMAIL WARMOTH if you want the straight dope before you invest in a part.



EV510T-BS-Dim2.jpg



VS100N-3.jpg
 
There you go, thanks for posting that.  Now I'm remembering.  The issue with the Wilkinson route is that the sustain block hole is most likely too small.  Also, the EV510 is located by the knife edge on the treble side and due to the difference in stud spacing, the EV510 will be located slightly off-center.  You'll end up with the strings too close to the fretboard edge on the treble side.  This is a problem that can be corrected by shimming the neck heel in the pocket, but I don't know how tightly Warmoth necks fit the pocket and you could end up needing to remove some wood there.  To me the Wilky route is a total loser for the EV510.

The American Standard route looks like it should work just fine.  Same stud spacing and the sustain block hole is basically large enough.  I've read that you do need to do some wood removal in the trem arm area, but otherwise it's fine.  But again, nothing seemed really conclusive based on the internet.

I did call Warmoth and they suggested sending the bridge and having them do the custom routing.  That's the way I went and the extra $45 seemed worth it to not have to worry about it.
 
Jesse said:
There you go, thanks for posting that.  Now I'm remembering.  The issue with the Wilkinson route is that the sustain block hole is most likely too small.  Also, the EV510 is located by the knife edge on the treble side and due to the difference in stud spacing, the EV510 will be located slightly off-center.  You'll end up with the strings too close to the fretboard edge on the treble side.  This is a problem that can be corrected by shimming the neck heel in the pocket, but I don't know how tightly Warmoth necks fit the pocket and you could end up needing to remove some wood there.  To me the Wilky route is a total loser for the EV510.

The American Standard route looks like it should work just fine.  Same stud spacing and the sustain block hole is basically large enough.  I've read that you do need to do some wood removal in the trem arm area, but otherwise it's fine.  But again, nothing seemed really conclusive based on the internet.

I did call Warmoth and they suggested sending the bridge and having them do the custom routing.  That's the way I went and the extra $45 seemed worth it to not have to worry about it.

I literally just put this exact bridge on a guitar of mine, and Jesse is absolutely correct. The closest rout is the American Standard, and it put the studs exactly where they need to be. You will have to remove some wood for the trem arm barrel. You will also have to remove some wood on the end-pin side of the trem block opening for full range of motion. Doing it was a total pain in the butt. We will do it for a mere $45? Wow...who new? I would have opted for that had I known.

Another thing Jesse did not mention is you will also have to tweak a standard strat pickguard to fit around the treble side properly. Unfortunately I did not realize this until I had already drilled the holes for the pick guard, and now I have a nice little hole/repair that shows. Booo.

I'll try and post some pics later.

Great tremolo, BTW....really fantastic.
 
Thanks all for the inputs.

Jesse: When you sent in your bridge, did they know it's not exactly the same Gotoh model listed on their page (see below)? I also emailed Warmoth and they said they CAN'T do custom routing for bridges NOT listed on the bridge routing page, which excludes the EV bridge??? :icon_scratch:

Here's the bridges they can do custom routing for:
(from http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/BridgeRoutingOptions.aspx)

    Carvin FTG Hardtail
    Fishman Tele 101 Bridge
    Fishman Powerbridge Hardtail
    Fishman TOM
    Fishman TSV Powerbridge
    Gibson B-0510-010 SG Style TOM
    Gotoh 510 TS-RS1 2-Hole Tremolo
    Gotoh 101
    Hipshot Tremolo
    Hipshot Flat Mount SB 5105-010
    LR Baggs TOM
    LR Baggs X Trem
    LR Baggs Hardtail
    Schaller 494 Stop Tail Piece w/ Fine Tuners
    Schaller STM Model 451, 452 or 453

 
double A said:
I literally just put this exact bridge on a guitar of mine, and Jesse is absolutely correct. The closest rout is the American Standard, and it put the studs exactly where they need to be. You will have to remove some wood for the trem arm barrel. You will also have to remove some wood on the end-pin side of the trem block opening for full range of motion. Doing it was a total pain in the butt. We will do it for a mere $45? Wow...who new? I would have opted for that had I known.

Another thing Jesse did not mention is you will also have to tweak a standard strat pickguard to fit around the treble side properly. Unfortunately I did not realize this until I had already drilled the holes for the pick guard, and now I have a nice little hole/repair that shows. Booo.
Ah crap you're going to make me try and do math now!  I'm trying to remember the conversation I had with them, but I believe I basically told them to do the 510T route that they have listed and they said that's fine but send the trem anyway.  Here's the 510T drawing for reference:

510T-FE1-Dim2.jpg


So from the pic above, the EV510T is 14.8 mm from the front edge of the trem to the front edge of the sustain block, but the actual knife edge sits 2.5 mm back from that.  So your working distance is 12.3 mm.  The trem arm holder actually sits 1.5 mm closer to the neck on the EV510T, so you have more clearance in back.

The 510T drawing shows 18.3 mm from the front edge of the trem to the leading edge of the sustain block.  Then subtract 3.8 mm to what appears to be the centerline of the stud.  So we're at 14.5 mm now.  But what is the distance from the centerline of the stud to the leading edge of the knife edge?  I'm not sure.  I could take out my calipers and measure one of the studs tomorrow.

So long story short, the EV510T will definitely fit in a 510T route and you might get very slightly less pull up on the trem.  So yes, pay Warmoth $45 to do the 510T route and you'll be fine.

About the pickguard, I did notice that but didn't want to throw a bunch of stuff at him at once.  I haven't had a chance to test fit everything with a neck and the E strings to see where I'm at.  I'm thinking I might have to go for a custom pickguard.  One option I considered is ordering a guard with the Floyd screw location but the standard bridge cut.  I assume they can do that.
 
I didn't think we routed for the 510 trem. Glad to hear I'm not going insane.

Here's the one I just did.
 

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The 510 T rout $ 45 option is the one to pick if you want Warmoth to do it. ( when ordering pick the American standard rout and add to the notes that you would like the 510T rout and that you accept the up charge. You can always mail or call to confirm )

My quilted purple Strat has a Gotoh 510 and the above is the rout(e) I used.

But if you want to do it yourself you need the American Standard rout not the Wilkinson.  That way you take away a little bit of wood as described above. (In hindsight I probably would do this next time )

Don't get the Wilkinson route as you will probably have a visible gap at the side of the trem apart from the stud spacing being ever so slightly different. There's a thread somewhere on this forum that shows this but I can't find it right now.

 
Hi Stratamania, thanks for your advice. I don't mind doing some woodwork myself, but does Gotoh post inserts fit into Am Std post holes just fine?

I went to your purple strat build page and noticed in the bridge cavity, there seems to be some extra routing done because I saw lighter color wood. Is this done by Warmoth for 510 bridge?

Thanks!
 
Yes that was the extra wood removal for the 510 T done by Warmoth.

On the stud inserts for the posts I am not 100% certain on the different dimensions. The 510 posts are similar to the ones sold for the Wilkinson.
 
Well it turns out I can't actually get the exact diameter of the part of the stud where the knife edge rests.  The jaws of my caliper are not quite fine enough.  I got down to 4.8 mm but I could tell that the calipers weren't 100% bottomed out.  For the leading edge of the sustain block to be located in the same exact spot on the 510T and EV510T, the diameter of the stud there would have to be 4.4 mm.  I'm going to assume that's what it is because I have to assume that Gotoh designed these to be interchangeable.


The insert diameter...that's the other thing that scared me off about selecting the American Standard route.  Gotoh says that the inserts are 10 mm in diameter.  Being a Japanese company (and being consistent with their other dimensions), this means 10.0 or tighter.  That is 0.394"

Warmoth lists all the inserts as being 10 mm but has the Am Std as 0.375" (9.5 mm) and the Wilkinson as 0.382" (9.7 mm).  I may be making way too big a deal about this, but I was afraid of putting undue pressure on the wood and potentially causing a crack.  Drill bit wise, 0.375" = 3/8 and 0.391" = 25/64.  Who knows if Warmoth is even using different size bits for these?
 
Suppose you were to bail on the 510 and go with the Hipshot Contour product instead?  Similar features, like the milled brass plate, but it's a drop-in replacement for the AmStd Strat bridge.






http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=181

Also available for a buck twenty-five at


http://guitarpartsresource.com/gbridge_hipshottremolo.htm
 
I get what you mean about the holes. One option would be to mail in your inserts to Warmoth and in addition to them doing the 510 trem rout for you I think they will install the inserts for $10.

When I put mine in I went very carefully.

That Hipshot trem looks pretty good also.
 
The plastic knob at the end of the trem arm kind of kills it for me.  I personally have a lot of experience with Gotoh hardware and feel like they make really top notch stuff.
 
Yeah, no escaping the unsightly plastic handle.  Well, maybe no escape, anyway.  Could be somone out there willing to fab an arm that spares you the misery, but then you're down the same road of trying to figure out how to accommodate another deviation from standard.
 
double A said:
Another thing Jesse did not mention is you will also have to tweak a standard strat pickguard to fit around the treble side properly. Unfortunately I did not realize this until I had already drilled the holes for the pick guard, and now I have a nice little hole/repair that shows. Booo.
Wanted to bring this back up to say, I did a little more test fitting yesterday and to expand on what double A is saying, the guard fits perfectly on the bass side of the trem but interferes on the trem on the treble side.  I feel like the pieces are in place for a solution to this, just don't know how I would explain it to sales on the phone.

Warmoth offers the pickguard with both Standard and Floyd Rose cut.

strat_6.gif


The Floyd cut would technically work but it would be overly large and ugly.  What about maintaining the "y-axis" part of the Standard cut and incorporating the treble side mod from the Floyd cut?

Another option might be ordering the guard  with the Standard cut but asking that they move Hole #8 to the Floyd location?

strat_9.gif


That would require some modification by the owner but might be easier to get them to pull off.
 
Well depending on the height of the trem, the guard would probably sit under it, but it would very much limit trem use.
 
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