FX

[Tweed]

Can someone explain the tonal and/or electronic differences between effects pedals in an effects loop and in line through the main input?

 

[line6man]

The amplitude of the signal in an effects loop is usually at line level, while after the guitar is at instrument level. AFAIK, it isn't a good idea to run pedals in an effects loop, because their input gain stages usually don't have the headroom necessary to handle a signal at line level without clipping. Impedance-wise, there are no issues, however.

Effects loops are generally used for things that you want to run after the input gain stage and tone stack of an amp. Things like reverbs work better in an effects loop most of the time.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Actually, as I understand it, the effects loop is buffered or boosted to compensate for the voltage drop of the send and return of a long cable run from amp to pedal board.  Some even run a patch cable with no effects in the send/return in an effects loop just for the boost.

 

[Superlizard]

Time-based fx (reverb, delay, etc) sound best after the entire
amplification stage... In other words, post-powertube or post-speaker.

Yes, doing it this way sounds superior even over the useful,
yet still half-assed way of going through an amp's FX loop.

The term "best" here means "clearest" - as in clean repeats, etc...

You can achieve the former (post-powertube) by running the speaker
out to dummy load which can convert the signal to line-level.  From
there you go to your time-based FX, then another amp, then to
your final speaker.  This is typically a live playing setup.  Typical
dummy-load with line-level out would be a device like a Hot Plate.

The way to achieve the latter (post-speaker) is simply the same
way they do it in the studio:  adding FX at the console.

Edward Van Heusen is a famous example of the former.

 

[kboman]

There are also devices to "improve" an effects loop in various ways, such as the Kleinulator from Dumble. Ceriatone make a clone of this as well as a tube driven version. Not sure how they work, but apparently they are nice things to have

 

[Steve_Karl]

Here's a quick easy discovery test.
Have all your FX in line with the guitar but turned off, and play your guitar.
Now plug your guitar directly into the amp and see if you hear the difference.

 

[Cagey]

Another consideration besides line levels and signal integrity is realism. With time-domain effects in particular (reverb, delay, etc.) you're trying to reproduce an environment to create the illusion of space. So, your signal should be shaped however you'd like it before it ever hits those effects. That way your signal sounds like it's being played in a larger room, or a room with an echo, whereas if you place them before or intermixed with other effects, you end up effectively putting multiple copies of the same signal into the effects, which makes them sound strange.

 

[Tweed]

I have a BYOC compressor coming in the mail. I was considering putting that in the loop and dist/fuzz in the input.
Better to just put all those between guitar and amp?



I know that they recommend putting that Sonic Maximizer through the loop.

 

[iamdavidmorris]

It's always worth trying.  It may not sound like people expect, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  It's one of the ways the great guitar players of the sixties and seventies made their names.

 

[kboman]

I'm gessing this is as good a place to ask as any - is there some way to add an effects loop to an amp which was not designed with one? Say the Vox AC15 I'm saving up for?

 

[Cagey]

Absolutely. Gets done all the time. But, it's worth it to read up on them a bit to see if yours is a problem they might solve or if you even need a loop at all. You might want to review this article at London Power.

 

[kboman]

Well, I want to use delays and most likely a better reverb than the built-in one as well as be able to use the distortion from the amp itself from time to time.
The London Power article didn't help me a whole lot right now, apart from saying "do it right" I certainly won't do it myself if it involves much more than connecting cables, so where do I turn to?

 

[Cagey]

Well, if you want to modify an amp to include an effects loop, there's a helluva lot more to it than simply connecting cables. Even the simplest loop will involve removing the chassis, identifying where the preamp/power amp connection can be interrupted, drilling some holes and installing jacks, and wiring the whole thing up properly. For someone used to doing that sort of work it's not a big project, but it's still not really a trivial task.

So, where do you go? It sorta depends where you are. You need a good shop that does mods, and those are usually concentrated in major population centers that present enough work to keep such a place in business. There's a folder here on the forum called "Find a Guitar Tech" that might be worth looking through. Or, you could just start a thread there that asks if anyone knows of a good shop in your area.

 

[Strat Avenger]

It's all about noise. Effects in the Effects Loop will produce less noise (hiss) than if they are in front of the main input.

You want a overdrive pedal to be in the main input (in front of the preamp to push it harder) as well as a Wah pedal,
but everything else (delay, chorus, flange, etc.) is much less noisy when inserted into the Effects Loop.

 

[kboman]

Eh, I'll look around in town - I doubt any Malmö people are advertising here. I have some free time coming up so I'll just have to take a walk and ask some questions.