Finishing a Flame Maple Tele (56k warning)

[CtheHammer]

So I recently started this thread to show my new flame maple tele body and neck that came less than a week ago from Warmoth.  Now I am working through the scraps to figure out what works and what doesn't for applying dye to figured maple and am interested in the thoughts, comments, and ideas of all the fine folks here.

What I've got so far is red and black trans tint from Woodcraft and I've used lacquer thinner as my base that I've added the tints to.  I'm using scraps of old t-shirt to apply the dye.  The scrap I've got (also from Woodcraft) is very thin (next time I'm going to go thicker) and while it has some figuring it generally requires looking at the wood from the right angle in order to actually see it.  I have applied water to the scrap and sanded the grain smooth using 220 grit paper on a sanding block.

Here it is after the first application of black dye:

Second coat and at an angle to better show grain (it is actually much darker but at this angle is reflecting the light over my kitchen table):

After sanding back:

After the first coat of red dye:

Last shot is in different light (kitchen vs kitchen table)

So here's what I'm wondering:
-The lacquer thinner seems to be drying pretty well, but I'm not sure if I am letting it dry long enough.  I did all of this this evening over the span of probably about 5 hours.  Should I be letting each coat of dye dry longer?
-Should I sand back the black more?  Where does the balance lie between cutting out most of the black without going too far into the black in the grain that you want there to make it "pop?"
-I'm planning on going over the red with a few more coats; will that address some of the vagaries in degrees of red-ness that I am seeing right now after one coat?

Other note for those that may be wondering:
-For mixing the lacquer thinner with the tint I used the highly scientific "guestimate method."  I measured out about 1 oz of thinner into a small plastic container (is plastic a bad idea?  I'm using the microwavable tupper-ware-like containers that picked up at Wal-mart for $2) and then added 30 drops of the tint and then mixed.  While the tint is recommended to be mixed at a ratio of 1 oz of tint to 1 qt of base liquid this seemed to yield a mix that would get me a tint that was pretty true to the red and black I was trying to get.


Thoughts?  Comments?  Suggestions?  I'm kind of making this up as I go along so I'm quite open to input that can smooth this process out where possible.  Thanks!

C

 

[RU36]

I have been doing test boards getting ready for my next project too.

From the look of the red it looks a little light in the picture.

I had the best results by mixing the black dye really weak in Lacquer thinner and just rubbing it in with a rag.
This method the black went in to the grain and darkened it but barley made the rest of it light grey.
It sanded back super easy and then when I added green over the light black it was a real contrasting POP.
After that i wiped back the green just a bit with a rag and thinner.
Then applied Yellow as a highlight color and it came out looking like a radio active jungle burst. Very intense grain and depth.

So long story short.
Try a real washed out black foundation, followed by a heavy red mix, and then consider maybe doing a highlight color to get maximum depth.

 

[Tonar8352]

I always mix a little lacquer retarder in with the lacquer thinner and dye.  It does not flash off as fast so it is easier to work.  

You will not get a true color test until you shoot some clear on top of your sample.  The clear will brighten the red and add depth to the look so you get a better idea of what it will look like in the end.

Dyes can generally be sanded back within a short time of application.  That is one of the advantages of using them in addition to the intensity of the colors.

May I suggest that you look through my posts?  You will find a lot of pictures showing applications of different dyes and finishes within.

Good luck on your beautiful guitar.

 

[CtheHammer]

Okay, a little more progress on the sample boards and I am liking what I am seeing.

I made another pass with the red dye and then did several passes with sanding and sealer followed by a couple coats of Deft semi-gloss lacquer.  Untouched, the wood had a very subtle grain that had to be held just right relative to the light for it to actually be seen.  What that made for is a look that is very dynamic (and difficult to photograph) based on what angle it is viewed from.  All in all if I can get this finish or something like it on my tele I think I will be a very happy man.

After more red

After two coats of semi-gloss clear coat.  Not very much black in the red...

Or is there... :headbang:

Gonna do a few more coats of clear on there and start refining how I want to buff it out.  Also working another board where I've done a little more surface prep, so hopefully that one will come out a little better and more like the actual guitar.  The unknown factor is that while my sample boards have a very subtle grain that is only visible from the correct angle, the grain on my tele is stunning and readily visible from every angle.  Not really sure how it will look if I follow the same procedures as the sample boards so it may get a little interesting...and fun!

 

[CtheHammer]

Black on the body and neck now:

I've done another pass on the top of the body and a few more passes on the neck since these pictures were taken.  Tomorrow afternoon I may go ahead an start sanding back the black or I may just wait until Wednesday (the next chance I'll get to work on this project).

Biggest challenge I have run into so far is that I couldn't seem to get some of my sanding to be even.  I don't know if it is my technique or what but I think things will be okay.  Just need to take even more care as I move forward I guess.

And yes, there is one spot on the neck that just wouldn't take the dye for one reason or another.  I have no idea why...

 

[bagman67]

Thats a handsome curly maple top on there.  I would call that a pretty darn sexy telecaster of you were simply to shoot it in clear now, but in my mind's eye I can also see it getting even sexier with color added.  Thanks for the updates and photos.

- Bagman

 

[dmraco]

looking good.... :glasses9:

 

[CtheHammer]

Sanded back:

First pass with red:

With flash on:

It does currently have more of a wine/blood red hue to it however the red does get more intense with each pass that I make.  I'll do another full sweep with the red later today and then maybe a third depending on how it looks after the second.  Overall I'm digging how it is turning out.  :headbang:

When I'm done with the red I'll probably go back with the black and wrap that back around over the edges to kind of give it a little bit of a burst effect or a sorts.

 

[kboman]

Looking great! I like how that dark streak ended up right under the controls

 

[CtheHammer]

Okay, one more update for the day  :icon_biggrin:
These photos are with the flash on, so it will look a little different from the others where the flash was off.  I've also made several more passes on the body with red and have sanded back and put red on the neck.  The color match is actually quite close.

:headbang1:

 

[CtheHammer]

Time to add the clear!  After doing several coats of sanding and sealer and smoothing that back (w/ 400 grit paper) I'm now adding Deft Semi-Gloss lacquer to both the body and neck.  For the neck I decided to carefully tape off the working surface of the fingerboard and do lacquer over the rest of the neck.  Not quite sure how that will turn out but it seemed like a better idea than taping off all the rosewood and hoping that I could neatly sand out the tactile line that would form between the lacquer and the tape.  But anyway, pictures!

The neck taping:

I got a little bit of blushing after one coat but it went away on the next coat:

Hanging in my makeshift paint booth before getting the third coat:

Hanging in my closet with a small fan pointed at them while they dry after three coats (almost two cans worth):
(without flash)

(with flash)

Probably do some light sanding in about a week to smooth stuff out at this point and then follow up with several more coats before letting it cure a bit and then final buffing.  Then it is time to assemble and  :guitarplayer2:

 

[Nando Vallart]

Really nice! Show us the headstock!!!!!

 

[bagman67]

Zowie, that's niiiice!

 

[kboman]

Now we're cooking...!

 

[BassmanAK]

I am having happy visions of a 5 string J-bass that color....
F****** GORGEOUS!!!!!  :icon_thumright:

 

[dmraco]

1st point...THAT THING LOOKS FANTASTIC!!!!!  AWESOME JOB.  GOTM territory for sure.

2nd...I am a little concerned about the finish...you say you are using Deft...I assume the nitro stuff.  Two cans gave you only three coats????  WOW.  Spraying nitro CANNOT be done too slowly...or too thin.  I think most would recommend 1-2 thin coats a day.  If you sprayed it that quick it will take eons to cure.  If you go to sand too early...it will get all gummy.  I would hate to hear you ruin a great looking finish.  I got some good advice from Jackthehack and Tonar a while back...take you time.

I will say the deft you can work a little faster with but you still need to be carefull.  I would let it dry for a good month in a well ventilated area before sanding.  Then try a small spot on the back.  After you sand and re-shot...use thin coats.  I recently did an entire guitar and neck with 2 cans...over 12 coats on the project...

Good luck and keep up the good work....

 

[CtheHammer]

I say two cans because I have two run down cans after the spraying however that is between both the body and the neck, plus the usual overspray as I move the can over the surface, some of the first can went to sample boards and I am not running any cans to empty for fear of spitting as they run dry.  But yes, I might have been a little heavy-handed so to speak... :toothy11: :dontknow:

I probably should slow down some.  I would hate for it to look this good only to ruin it through my own impatience, eh?  :glasses10:

 

[dmraco]

I say two cans because I have two run down cans after the spraying however that is between both the body and the neck, plus the usual overspray as I move the can over the surface, some of the first can went to sample boards and I am not running any cans to empty for fear of spitting as they run dry.  But yes, I might have been a little heavy-handed so to speak... :toothy11: :dontknow:

I probably should slow down some.  I would hate for it to look this good only to ruin it through my own impatience, eh?  :glasses10:

just make sure it is dry before you sand.  Do a little test area.  Looks great!!!!  I love the color.  The best thing about nitro is you do not have to sand until the very end.  Each coat "melts" into the next.  If you are ahppy withthe smoothness of the finish...let it dry and do a final sand and polish.  I would let it sit at least a month

 

[Cagey]

I kept looking at that last picture, wondering why in the world you would have taped off the rearward half an inch of body. Then it dawned on me: it's shadow from the flash I'm seeing, not tape on the body! LOL!

Looks great, though. That's a very attractive shade.

 

[CtheHammer]

So I have a slight problem.  I was smoothing stuff out with wet 600 grit paper when I realize that I have accidentally sanded through!

And sadly I am stupid and when I saw the spot I first thought that it was a spot that I missed...and made it worse...

So what's the fix?  Drop fill and smooth out?  Reshoot the whole front?  Reshoot the whole thing?  At this point I'm thinking I may be stuck with one weird little spot but I would still like to repair as best I can...  Any insight is appreciated... ???