Carved Top Mahogany Tele: $260, Carved Top Mahogany LPS: $510 ... why?

[reluctant-builder]

Why is the carved top Tele so much less expensive than the carved top LPS body?

In my case, I chose mahogany for the LPS body builder to suss out the total cost -- the base cost is $510 -- and then went to the Tele builder to see a virtual version of a guitar with the features I wanted (color, binding, pups, bridge, etc.) and I was aghast at the HUGE difference in price. The Tele's base cost is only $260!

Tele bodies are pretty sizeable chunks of wood, I think. Does an LPS really have $250 more wood in it?

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Strange indeed.  I don't know if it matters, but the carved top on the Tele and VIP are both flat enough to use a flatmount bridge whereas the LP and LPS are rounded.  That may take $260 more to accomplish.  Just a guess

 

[Cagey]

Ben Franklin famously said: "The worth of a thing is the price it will bring. " Of course, one might accuse him of pointing out the obvious, but it's a constant source of amazement to many people what things actually sell for. It's made eBay famous not only for its good deals, but also for the bad ones, and turned it into a pretty good reference for what something is worth. You may think your item is worth a lot, or maybe not worth anything at all, but all you have to do is check the sales history on eBay and you find out that similar items have sold repeatedly for X dollars. It can either take the wind out of your sails, or get you excited.

I said all that to say this: Gibson Les Pauls have traditionally been expensive, but never more so than they are now. They've become a joke even among the faithful. But, they still go for a lotta money, and sales are actually made, so anything like them will as well. Telecasters? Not so much. In fact, they're generally considered to be overweight canoe paddles that only the poorest of the hillbillies play, which was the market they were aimed at originally.

Not to disparage Teles at all - Warmoth has done a great deal to raise the bar on that body style, and I'm finally tempted after all these years to finally own one - but old prejudices die hard. Les Pauls and Strats epitomize badass rock 'n' roll/blues, so they're always going to be highly desirable. Supply and demand, in this case, particularly demand, says you can sell Les Paul bodies for more than you can Tele bodies.

If you really want to know how much trouble it is to make a Les Paul, check out Agile. One of their AS-3000 or higher models will always beat the snot out of a Gibson Les Paul Custom, and they're nearly a whole order of magnitude less expensive. We're talking $400 vs. $3,500. So, there's no magic there. It's the marketing weenies taking advantage of you.

 

[rapfohl09]

Also, the regular solid body carved top teles don't have a laminate top. I checked the body builder, and that must have been what you selected, because if you go to the chambered/hollow selection and select a mahogany tele the base price is 435$.

It must just be something about the tele that doesn't require a laminate top. Where as any other carved top model that you see in warmoth's selection, it is immediately going to need a lam. top.

 

[Jeremiah]

I don't think the carved top Soloist requires a lam top, and it costs around the same as the LPS.

On the other hand, the Soloist doesn't cost any extra if you do choose the lam top.

 

[rockskate4x]

IIRC, the carved top tele is made from the same sized blank as a normal tele, meaning they just contoured away from the sides instead of adding a thick top in order to carve it like a Les Paul or a VIP. This means there is less wood and glueing involved, so the materials and labels go down.

 

[bagman67]

I'm here to tell you, if you go to a figured top on a carved Tele, the price goes up a decent bit.  And if you go Unique Choice, well, you wind up with Quty Pie - but at a steep premium.  That said:

The carved Tele is vastly more comfortable to play, in my opinion, than a Les Paul.  So long as your aesthetic goals don't confilct with it, I'd give it some serious consideration.  Being a southpaw, you'll likely never encounter one in the showcase, so you might as well put your custom-build dollars where they'll do you the most good.  If that means you'll end up with the LP of your dreams, good for you - I seem to recall Hannaugh's got an amazing LP floating around that I'd be proud to call my own.

Peace

Bagman

 

[reluctant-builder]

I chose neither a generic nor distinct top on the LPS body. I just selected "carved top" and not "flat top." I assumed it would be one piece of mahogany with its top carved, as it is with the carved top Tele.

When I went through the Tele builder, I chose carved top ... not chambered, not carved and hollow. Just carved. The bottom left option of the four choices in the body builder.

Ostensibly, I chose two different body shapes with identical parameters. Solid mahogany, carved top. $250 price difference. I didn't make a mistake in my comparison.

Whatever the reason, the discrepancy is a disappointment ... and it's dissuasive. For me, at least. It'd be nice if it were dissuasive to all potential buyers because a decrease in demand would likely be met with a decrease in price.

Of course, there is the Devil's advocate retort that a large enough decrease in demand would result in mothballing the option altogether.

 

[bagman67]

I think the carved Tele can be made from a single board, and the carved LP routing necessitates an additional glue-up for the top.  So that's one point of additional cost.  Separately, as Cagey pointed out - they charge what (enough) folks will pay (to make it maximally profitable to offer them).

 

[Cagey]

I don't think the carved top Soloist requires a lam top, and it costs around the same as the LPS.

On the other hand, the Soloist doesn't cost any extra if you do choose the lam top.

The VIPs are pretty dear, too. It's tough to get a finished one for less than $700.

 

[Wyliee]

IIRC, the carved top tele is made from the same sized blank as a normal tele, meaning they just contoured away from the sides instead of adding a thick top in order to carve it like a Les Paul or a VIP. This means there is less wood and glueing involved, so the materials and labels go down.

You're on the right track here.  I can't go in to all the detailed differences in producing a CT Tele versus other CT models, but there are production differences.

 

[swarfrat]

When I worked in manufacturing, they were pretty strict about each product had to carry its own weight when it came to pricing, profitability, and such. If we bought a new machine for some step, or to combine steps on the same machine - the products made on that machine had to justify it. No spreading the cost around to other products allowed. Stuff like fixturing and setups can significantly impact the cost as well, and aren't really visible to you the consumer. Carved tops require both thicker tops, and more machining time.

 

[Jusatele]

Why is the carved top Tele so much less expensive than the carved top LPS body?

In my case, I chose mahogany for the LPS body builder to suss out the total cost -- the base cost is $510 -- and then went to the Tele builder to see a virtual version of a guitar with the features I wanted (color, binding, pups, bridge, etc.) and I was aghast at the HUGE difference in price. The Tele's base cost is only $260!

Tele bodies are pretty sizeable chunks of wood, I think. Does an LPS really have $250 more wood in it?

I just went and chose mahogany for body and top on a carved to and go 410 for a tele base before any options and 510 for the LP, so that is 100 if both top and back are mahogany.
cannot say whhy, but it seems the base of the tele is cheap and the top is more expensive while the base for the LP is expensive and the top is cheaper, could be the thickness of the product.

 

[reluctant-builder]

I didn't choose an additional top on either builder. I chose the carved top Tele option to start, and then just the body wood, nothing else. It comes to $260.

Apparently, the difference is that -- even if I choose just the mahogany body on the carved top LPS -- that LPS carved tops are not one piece bodies, but require an additional piece of wood to be glued on top, to be carved.

 

[llmtelecaster]

Does anybody know how much of the carving is done by CNC?

 

[Cagey]

Unless they're insane, all of it. Final sand to get rid of milling marks would be done by hand. These aren't Warmoth, but it's the same process...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fikcxmnn8Q&feature=related​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCi6Py32u_s​

 

[Orpheo]

I didn't choose an additional top on either builder. I chose the carved top Tele option to start, and then just the body wood, nothing else. It comes to $260.

Apparently, the difference is that -- even if I choose just the mahogany body on the carved top LPS -- that LPS carved tops are not one piece bodies, but require an additional piece of wood to be glued on top, to be carved.

doesn't matter. a carved tele doesn't get a top by default and an LP gets one by default.

 

[reluctant-builder]

I didn't choose an additional top on either builder. I chose the carved top Tele option to start, and then just the body wood, nothing else. It comes to $260.

Apparently, the difference is that -- even if I choose just the mahogany body on the carved top LPS -- that LPS carved tops are not one piece bodies, but require an additional piece of wood to be glued on top, to be carved.

doesn't matter. a carved tele doesn't get a top by default and an LP gets one by default.

As you can see in the post of mine you quoted, I now realize that.

 

[reluctant-builder]

Well, it only took a few days, but the GAS for an LPS has returned. It seriously must be a mental illness, this desire to acquire guitars, since it overrides my good sense.

I can get a black-bounded LPS with an Alpine White finish, carved top, for $845. Considering that a flat-top Les Paul Junior Double Cutaway costs $2,500 (and I'd want two P90s, not one ... and a carved top, not flat), -- and I can't seem to find one that's left-handed, anyway -- it doesn't seem like such a raw deal, after all.

It does seem like no body contours are available (I'd think the tummy-cut would be the only one possible, but doesn't seem to be offered) ... does anyone know why not?

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

An LP body also has a wiring channel that is routed in the base blank prior tom the lam blank being glued on, increasing costs for hands on labor, then it hits the cnc machine a 2nd time which takes the machine out of production for other one timed simplified applications (opportunity cost) and still has to be spec verified by QC at each stage of construction.  At Warmoth, every single body and neck go back to the QC guy after each stage of production to be QC approved or rejected before going on to the next stage of production.  since Warmoth is a small company, this particular task is fit into the daily packaging of each shipment. 

Yes, the same guy who spec checks every body and neck, also checks and preps every single shipment for shipping.  Having a QC guy that is an objective pair of eyes unattached to any single department of manufacturing helps to ensure the highest degree of quality for your Warmoth body and/or neck.  There are costs in running a business, especially any business that you hope will be profitable, and as a business owner you constantly have to weigh how any task performed by your staff will result in return compensation at a value that will be successful for all parties involved.