Blues Tone

[ocguy106]

Hey all,

You have been helpfull in the past and now I am ready to place my order. I am doing a Blues guitar for my dad's 55 b-day and have most of it planned out. He currently plays a strat and loves it but I have a 74 SG that was handed down to me from him that he bought new in 74. The SG he loves the tone and the "Bite" that it has and it can be warm and mellow as well. he loves the sound and playability of his strat. I am trying to meld the 2 together.

I want
1. Hollow body strat with Mahogony body quilt top and f-hole
2. Recessed TOM with string trough body
3. 2 Humbuckers
4. gibson SG style controls 2 tone 2 vol
5. Maple neck

Pick-ups I am lost!!!!
any feedback on these http://cgi.ebay.com/SKATTERBRANE-Gibson-Les-Paul-PAF-RI-Humbucking-Pickups_W0QQitemZ310029639557QQihZ021QQcategoryZ41429QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

any sugestions at all as I think this will be the largest factor on tone

Also I am custom making the water slide with his name and the serial number of the guitar will be the date of his birth but still undecided on the model name of the guitar. I would like it to be somthing along the lines of:

BluesTone Signature Series
Bluesmaster Signature Series
BluesCaster Signature Series
you get the picture...any toughts or suggestions would be appreciatied.

Thank You
Ken

 

[jackthehack]

If you want to get a more "SGish" sound, use a mahogany neck with a rosewood fretboard & Gibson style 6130 frets.

Don't know about the pickups you posted the link to; an SD Pearly Gates or Rio Grande Buffalo Texas set would work for what it sounds like you're trying to do. The Buffalo Texas set isn't offered on the Warmoth site, but you can get it from the Rio Grande website; the Buffalo Bucker is a neck HB wound to more vintage like specs; TX humbucker used in bridge position.

 

[ocguy106]

How big a factor is the neck on the tone? I was going with the Caribbean Burst finish so it was mostly for astestics. I can change the top to a deep blue quilt and it would match better with a darker neck.

 

[Nando Vallart]

How big a factor is the neck on the tone? I was going with the Caribbean Burst finish so it was mostly for astestics. I can change the top to a deep blue quilt and it would match better with a darker neck.

Almost everybody here agreed that the neck counts more in the tone than the body....

 

[jackthehack]

The Carribean burst is always done with a trans blue back bursted over; you can get the mahogany neck done in trans blue and they'll match it up if you order and have them finished together at the same time.

If you want to go a maple neck the tone of the guitar will be noticibly brighter, more "Fenderish" than if you use a mahogany neck as would be stock on the SG.

 

[chuck7]

the pickups you linked to on ebay appeared to be something PAF like, in that vein, I highly recommend the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover model.  I have one in the bridge of my SG, and I absolutely love it.  It has a great warm clean tone, and breaks up very well under high gain.  Astesticly speaking, they look a lot like the ones you linked to as they come in either chrome or gold covers. 

 

[Bill in SC]

I really appreciate it, son!    Seriously, if he likes the PAF tone of the SG, why not use Gibson '57 Classics or Burstbucker pros?
BB in SC

 

[Tweed]

It might also do to have an HSS config, for some more Strat sound.

 

[willyk]

Jack's spot on with his neck choice and Bill in SC makes a lot of sense with the pickups. SD 59's would be on my list too.

Call it  the "K 2-D"............that's Ken to Dad      or the "K 2-W"  if his name is Warmoth. :icon_biggrin:

 

[jackthehack]

I made my pickup selection suggestion based on the '72 SG (OP references a '74) I owned way back when; CB knows the vagaries of Gibson humbuckers better than I and can comment, but my recollection is that the late 60s/early 70s SGs came with 'buckers that were higher output than the older PAFs

 

[willyk]

I made my pickup selection suggestion based on the '72 SG (OP references a '74) I owned way back when; CB knows the vagaries of Gibson humbuckers better than I and can comment, but my recollection is that the late 60s/early 70s SGs came with 'buckers that were higher output than the older PAFs

I think your recollection is right. I'm just thinking that getting '74 SG-like tones from a hollow strat body might be easier achieved with more 'moderate' pups. Gibson 57s, SD'59s or similar. :dontknow:

 

[ocguy106]

Thanks for all the replys as they have been very helpfull. I will definatly look into the pick-up choices mentioned. As for the neck I will be going with a mahgony neck but am very tron as I was going to go with a high grade flame maple. The guitar was originaly going to be all gold hardware but am having second thoughts on that as I don't want it to look to gawdy and add that to the fact that I don't know how well all the different vendors gold parts will match. I have a couple of other concearns as well.

1. I just found the concetric pots that warmoth has. might be cool to use one of those for Tone so as to maintain the "strat" look of 3 knobs
2. I was originaly going to go with a 3 way switch and wire it that way. I think I am going to go with a 5 way and add a couple of more tones. What would be the best combo for the additional sounds.

I have been planning this for years in my head and now that the time has come I am second guessing everything. I will have to make the decision very quickly though to get everything done before his b-day.

thanks again guys

 

[chuck7]

I'm going to be setting something similar on my LSP.  I am doing a Seymour Duncan P90-1 single coil in the neck, and a SD p90 stack in the bridge.  The stack is actally a humbucker pickup, so I am going to wire it for series/split/parallel.  My controls will look like this:

3 way pickup selector
2 concentric tone and volume knobs (one set for each pickup)
3 way on/on/on mini toggle for the series/split/parallel option on the humbucker. 

I have also considered adding a second 3 way mini toggle that would let me run the two pickups out of phase as well, though I haven't really decided if its necessary. 

The series/split/parallel option gives you just about all the usable sound options you can get out of a single humbucker.  There is also a way to wire the pickup so that the two coils are out of phase with each other, but as I understand it the result is possibly mildly interesting, but not really very useful as most of the sound is canceled completely. 

Personally, if I were doing the build you are, I would go something like this:

3 way pickup selector
2 concentric tone/volume pots
2 3 way mini toggles for independent series/split/parallel on each pickup

I think you could fit that into a strat pickguard in a why that would not be overly "non-strat".  Of course, this is just my opinion which as often as not is rather useless  

I would be hesitant to have one pickup on independent tone and volume pots, and the other on a concentric pair.  Mainly because it just dosn't sound right.  But if maintaining the look takes precedence, its certainly a workable and valid option. 

Something else you may look into are the 7 way blade switches.  I dont know anything about them other than that they exist, but that may be a way to go that gives you the single blade switch strat vibe, but also allows all the possible options. 

The wiring diagrams on SD's website are fantastic regardless of what pickup you go with.  If you are using a different vendor, just be sure to map over the wire colors when reading the information. 

Also, for tonal versatility, SD is in the process of launching a new pickup called the p-rails that looks to be quite interesting.  There is a youtube video out there of the demo of the pickup, but I don't know that anyone has actually seen on in the wild yet.  The defiantly DO NOT look vintage at all.  They look like a squeezed p90 with a rail hanging off the bottom, but they clam to give you p90/strat single coil/humbucker tone, all in one pickup. 

Here is the post with the video embedded: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=2143.0

One last thing, this may be a given, but if you are wanting to do any sort of series/split/parallel/power boost/phase canceling/etc options with the pickups, you need to make sure that the ones you choose have 4 conductor wiring.  A lot of the vintage models (such as the Seth Lover that I recommend earlier) only have a single coaxial conductor, and are not easily used for any sort of coil tapping.  There are instructions out there for how to do it, but it involves some amount of surgery on the pickup that gives me the willies. 

 

[ocguy106]

I would be hesitant to have one pickup on independent tone and volume pots, and the other on a concentric pair.  Mainly because it just dosn't sound right.  But if maintaining the look takes precedence, its certainly a workable and valid option. 

I was actually thinking of doing 2 volume knobs and having the 2 tones be on the concetric pot.....Is there any problems I should be aware of on this?

 

[willyk]

STOP THE BUS !!  :redflag:

Boys and girls Ken wants a blues guitar as a present for his 55 year old Dad. Speaking as a person of similar vintage, I would not relate a blues guitar with the multi switchery and golly-gee circuits that have been mentioned. Not that there is anything wrong with  that sort of thing but all the guy wants is an axe that plays like his favorite strat and can sound like his old SG.

FWIW.  I built a hollow strat with an f hole for a friend of mine a year or so ago. It had 2 humbuckers, a 3 way switch and 3 knobs so it looked very 'normal' I used 2 volumes and 1 master tone and the tone pot was push/pull. Up was coil split for both pups, down was full speed ahead..........dead easy! Seymour Duncan has some great wiring diagrams including that one on their site. There's also one I used on a hollow tele which gives plenty of useable options for 2 humbuckers and a 5 way switch.
Matching up gold hardware is no great problem in my experience, if you're worried about the guitar looking gaudy think about a Flamed maple top instead of quilt.  :dontknow:

Rant over everybody, sorry for bending your ears.  :doh:

 

[Kostas]

Ken,

I listened these clips of scatterbrane pickups and all I can say is use them! In every clip they sound spectacular, despite the different players and amps. They are always on Les Pauls though which is a different guitar from what you will built.

As far as control layout what willyk suggested is the easiest, the coil tap is essential in a guitar with two humbuckers.

I believe everything alters the tone of a guitar so I would use a mahogany neck, not maple. The maple top as W mentions would not alter the tone so much as in a guitar with a carved top. In this situation the (carved) top is thicker and contributes more to the tone. You can also use korina (for body & neck), most people say it sounds like mahogany with more bite.

The scale length of the neck will contribute much to the sound, what scale have you chosen?

 

[ocguy106]

I listend to the clips as well and the very first one i listend to was exactly the tone I was looking for. I am actually in Guyana right now on buisness and will be here for a bit longer. The internet here is AWFUL so I wasn't able to check out all of the clips. I didn't here any with distortion but the clean ones I heard are the tone that cost compliments my dads playing. I think I am just about set. I will be ordering in the next day or so and will be sure to post sound clips of him playing it

As for your neck question I am going with fender standard scale legth.

One last neck question like I said before he is currently playing a strat circa 98'. What would be a comparable neck contour and fret size. I was thinking the SS 6105 but want to make sure that this one is super comfortable to pick up and play. He hates change and LOVES his current guitar. I want this to compliment his other guitar but not feel like he has to "get used to it" I might add he loves playing my SG but of course it feels like a baseball bat worlds apart from a strat.

 

[Kostas]

The 6105 frets are close to the medium jumbo Fender uses. I suggest the SS 6105, I find the stainless steel frets smoother and more comfortable. I'm not going back to the nickel frets anymore, SS 6105 for me :icon_smile:

 

[ocguy106]

Ok well pulled the trigger today and ordered. Got this neck:

As for the body:
Mahogony with 5a quilt top in caribbean burst
rear route
recessed TOM
F-hole
contoured heel
Hum x Hum config
standard strat control confiig that will be set up with 2 volume and 1 concetric pot for 2 tone
All gold hardware with sprezal locking tuners

Now the one thing I can't decide on and I will have to by tomorrow is:

do I do the back in a Candy blue solid to match the burst over or Do the clean line option and have the back clear coat like a PRS in which case it would match the neck....
please help on this I can see the blue back in the showcase and will be no suprise but the clear back I am having troubl visulizing.

Ken

 

[blue313]

Here's the back of a clear gloss mahogany Strat body.  As far as matching, should be close assuming the neck will also be finished clear.