Bass6 parts

[Sovereign_13]

This is what happens when I have lots of ideas and no disposable income to follow through on things... :icon_biggrin:

While I already have a pretty good plan for my next #1 guitar, I've also been playing with the idea of a Bass6 for a first build.  I seem to have an affinity for oddball instruments.  Anyway, I have a few questions about parts and figured I would tap the wealth of knowledge that is this forum.  Specifically, I'm... well, not confused, but more just lacking information on pickups, tuners, and bridges.

Tuners are easy, we'll start with them.  Now, Fender/Squier puts what looks like their standard guitar tuners on their Bass VI reissues.  I assume* that normal (say Gotoh or Hipshot) guitar tuners will work with the thicker short-scale bass strings?  It doesn't seem likely to be able to get bass tuners on that headstock, not to mention the kind of neck-dive issues you'd have.  :icon_scratch:

*you know what they say about that

The other main thing is pickups.  SOP with these basses is to use Strat or Jaguar pickups.  F/S uses Jag pickups, however, I understand they are not quite the same shape as the Strat pickup route used by Warmoth.  Also, the only consensus I've found on the Internet is to use "low- or vintage-output" pickups, as high-output ones make the guitar all muddy.  By high-output I assume humbuckers are off the table, but does anyone know where the line is?  Would P90s (like a Phat Cat) work?  Noiseless/stacked single-coils?  Both tend to be a little "hotter" than typical single-coils, but well under the DCR of even some of the "medium" and "hot" true single coils out there.

Bridges are kind of a weird thing.  The stock Jazzmaster bridge is, from what I understand, a known weak point on these guitars.  Staytrem and Mastery are well-known and popular replacements that address most of the faults with that design, however I have no experience with any of them.  Any insight here would be appreciated.

As always, thanks for sharing your knowledge!  :icon_thumright:

 

[amigarobbo]

This is what happens when I have lots of ideas and no disposable income to follow through on things... :icon_biggrin:

While I already have a pretty good plan for my next #1 guitar, I've also been playing with the idea of a Bass6 for a first build.  I seem to have an affinity for oddball instruments.  Anyway, I have a few questions about parts and figured I would tap the wealth of knowledge that is this forum.  Specifically, I'm... well, not confused, but more just lacking information on pickups, tuners, and bridges.

Tuners are easy, we'll start with them.  Now, Fender/Squier puts what looks like their standard guitar tuners on their Bass VI reissues.  I assume* that normal (say Gotoh or Hipshot) guitar tuners will work with the thicker short-scale bass strings?  It doesn't seem likely to be able to get bass tuners on that headstock, not to mention the kind of neck-dive issues you'd have.  :icon_scratch:

Remind me go and check in good light tomorrow, but I think they're normal guitar tuners;

 

[T89Rex]

The Mastery bridge is a delight. My major issue with the stock bridge was the awful saddles and the grub screws coming loose over time. Some folks have issues with reduced sustain owing to the low break angle and problems with the vibrato unit but neither of those were ever issues for my playing style. The Mastery fixed every problem I had with the standard bridge and then some. Best investment I've ever made in my JM.

I think with the offset bridge more generally it's important to know what you're getting. You'll never dive bomb or get huge singing sustain, but you do get a very particular sound out of it I don't think you can get from other arrangements. I'm a fan but there are heaps of people out there who aren't.

 

[Day-mun]

I will start off by saying that I have not built a Warmoth Bass 6. but I have put a baritone neck on a Jazzmaster, and attempted to use a set of Fender's bass VI strings. If my scale length was just a little longer, the (really low) E string would have fit in the vintage kluson-style tuner(s), but with the baritone being ~1.5" shorter than the 6, the stepped-down string windings didn't line up with the tuner's post. But I can say that i know that that string set will indeed work with Kluson type machines with the slotted "safety" posts, but I am guessing, just by eye-balling them that the holes through the posts on more modern machine designs such as Shaller, Planet Waves, etc. would be too small.

On this same instrument (tuned to either low A or B), I can confirm that lower output pickups do indeed sound better. I used CiJ JM pickups (which are really just strat pickups with bigger bobbins), and the lower output was decidedly better for tone in the lower registers. If I were to build a bass 6, I would be strongly inclined to use something like, say SD Antiquity Duo Sonics or Antiquity II Mustang pickups; -flat/flush pole-pieces that will fit under strat-style no-holes covers.

If by Jazzmaster bridge, you mean the tremolo tailpiece, then may I assure you that it is a useable/functional piece of equipment, even with the increased string tension that comes with the bari/bass territory. I think with these trem mechanisms, you get whatcha pay for. I have several instruments with Fender AVRI Jazz/Jag trem tailpieces, and have no complaints. I have had one no-logo generic unit that was nothing but trouble, and another that functioned rather well. I have never used or purchased anything Mastery (yet... but the GAS is there), so I cannot comment there. I've a friend that went with a Mastery bridge, but opted to keep using his stock Fender JM trem, if that means anything to you. Now, on the JM bridge itself, I am inclined to use Mustang-style saddles instead of the threaded-rod type that are stock on Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridges. The deeper string slots on Mustang barrel-style saddles help keep the strings from hopping around on their saddles (-or over to the saddle next door). For ease of setting intonation, I flipped the bridge around so that the intonation screw heads face the active length of string. This allows for more rearward travel/compensation of the lower/fatter strings. Again, I haven't used any of Mastery's products (yet), so I dunno how they'd work with the heavier string gauges of the Bass VI.

And, I should mention the non-trem conversion plates from Faction Guitars as an option. I have a detuned JM outfitted with one of these, and the tuning stability cannot be denied (-but is still not so much so that it is more noticeable than the trem tailpiece that it replaced).

 

[Sovereign_13]

They certainly look like normal guitar tuners.  I was mostly concerned that they wouldn't accept strings of that gauge, but the super-heavy sets (for way-too-low tunings on standard-scale guitars) go down to about 0.06 on the low E.  Bass VI seems to be around 0.084 for the same.

I don't see myself using the vibrato unit much, so I'm more concerned with overall tuning stability.

I did notice that the Warmoth Modified Mustang bridge will also fit, and allows for adjusting the bridge radius to match the fretboard.  It also seems to have a different (I can't speak to "better") saddle design than the typical Jazzmaster bridge.  Any thoughts on that?  The Mastery looks to be an excellent piece of hardware, but is it expensive!

Edit: Ah, Day-mun, you snuck in on me!  Thanks for the excellent info across the board!  I was looking at the Classic Stack Plus set, which is a fair bit hotter than the Antiquities line.

 

[Day-mun]

Klusons will work. The low E string's windings (for the Fender Bass VI set, anyway) step down in diameter right about where they clear the nut, so the section of string that is getting wrapped on the post is of a smaller diameter than the active string over the neck & pickups. (See Amigarobbo's photo above.)

I haven't used the adjustable mustang saddles, but I have replaced the E's saddles with taller barrels from a spare set of saddles to get the radius flatter. Guitar Parts Factory has that same bridge you've mentioned from Warmoth, as well as replacement saddle sets, etc.; Worth checking out.

 

[Day-mun]

Also, if you feel you need more of a break angle of the strings off the backside of the bridge, there is the buzz-stop. It is a bar that fastens on using two of the existing screws from the trem tail-piece that the strings are routed under before ramping up to the bridge. They are not the most becoming hardware additions one can bolt to their offset, but they do work. (Let me know if you want one; PM me, and I will ship it to you for free.)

 

[amigarobbo]

They certainly look like normal guitar tuners.  I was mostly concerned that they wouldn't accept strings of that gauge, but the super-heavy sets (for way-too-low tunings on standard-scale guitars) go down to about 0.06 on the low E.  Bass VI seems to be around 0.084 for the same.

Most people recommend going slighty heavier, a 95 for the low E.  I think LaBella's VI set of 026, .035, .044, .056, .075, .095 are the recommended roundwounds.

 

[T89Rex]

Not to try to rob Day-mun of a sale or anything, but I'd really advise against the buzz stop. I had one on my JM for a year or so and I feel it kills the JM sound and feel, plus it takes away the ability to strum behind the bridge. If you're not specifically after the sort of percussive jangle that bridge delivers, I reckon you'd be better served going with a bridge design that works on its own.

All that said, they're totally reversible so you can always take it off if you find you don't like it.

 

[amigarobbo]

This is what happens when I have lots of ideas and no disposable income to follow through on things... :icon_biggrin:

While I already have a pretty good plan for my next #1 guitar, I've also been playing with the idea of a Bass6 for a first build.  I seem to have an affinity for oddball instruments.  Anyway, I have a few questions about parts and figured I would tap the wealth of knowledge that is this forum.  Specifically, I'm... well, not confused, but more just lacking information on pickups, tuners, and bridges.

Tuners are easy, we'll start with them.  Now, Fender/Squier puts what looks like their standard guitar tuners on their Bass VI reissues.  I assume* that normal (say Gotoh or Hipshot) guitar tuners will work with the thicker short-scale bass strings?  It doesn't seem likely to be able to get bass tuners on that headstock, not to mention the kind of neck-dive issues you'd have.  :icon_scratch:

Remind me go and check in good light tomorrow, but I think they're normal guitar tuners;

:icon_scratch:

The tuners on the Warmoth strat are Gotoh vintage style tuners,

 

[Sovereign_13]

They look the same to me.  And since Fender probably isn't in the habit of making fancy single-use tuners for specialty guitars, I'd venture they're just the same Kluson/vintage-style guitar tuners as on the Strat.

I think the best option (for starting out) is to try the Modified Mustang bridge and see how that goes (mostly for the saddles).  The Buzz Stop seems to be a pretty polarizing piece of hardware...I'd probably try some other things before going that route, but as you said it's not a permanent install.  I want to give the Mustang/JM bridge and vibrato a chance to stand on its own merits before deciding I don't like it and finding alternate solutions.

Jury is still out on pickups...I'm currently investigating the Duncan "Vintage Flat Strat", "Antiquity II Surfer", and "California 50s" sets.  The California 50s are the lowest-output, the Surfers have a slightly hotter bridge, and the Vintage Flats are all about the same "heat" as the Surfer bridge.

 

[amigarobbo]

I was looking at the photos, and after thinking they were the same, I did start noticing that the gold ones did look slightly chunkier.

Then after another think, they're the one on the strat,  :doh:

I did compair the phat E string with a .095, and it's at least that thick, possibly a 100 gauge, still wraps fine due to the stepping on the windings

Why don't you go for some Bass VI style pickups?

http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/bass_bassvi.shtml

 

[Sovereign_13]

Good to know for certain that the guitar tuners will work.  I'm not overly a fan of vintage-style tuners, but we'll start with "functional" and then worry about the rest later.

I didn't know there was such a thing as "Bass-VI-style" pickups, to be honest.  I figured everyone was just repurposing Strat/Jaguar pickups.  Those do look nice, although they're a fair bit pricier than a Strat set.

What I will probably do is repurpose the Fender CS69 Strat set I have leftover from a previous build (that got tossed, but I kept all the upgrade bits I added to it, to my now-wife's chagrin) and see how that goes.  If it doesn't work out, I can look more into pickup options without having wasted anything but time.  Plus it saves money, which shortens the amount of time I need to put aside discretionary income, which leads to purchasing things sooner, which leads to a build thread and lots of pictures for you guys.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Day-mun]

@ Sovereign_13:

The buzz-stop wasn't for sale; I am intending to GIVE it to you and ship it for FREE. I also have a no-logo Jazzmaster trem tailpiece you can HAVE. It is the one that worked well for me (-not the trouble-maker). PM me your (Sovereign_13's) address (continental U.S., I hope) and I will send them both to you to keep. If you like 'em, great! Problem solved and project is a success. If you don't like them, well then you can start to shop for what you will like to replace 'em, and you haven't lost any $$$. And you can do what you wish with the tailpiece and buzz-stop either way.