Anyone using a Kahler Flat Mount?

[Steve_Karl]

Hi there,

Tell me about the tone and sustain?
Which one do you have (model number) brass/brass ... brass/steel ... steel/steel ... etc?

Thank you!

Or if you're willing and able:
Record a quick audio demo?
Please, no amps or amp sims. I need it to be direct into the sound card. That's the only way to get the real sound of the guitar and hear how it sustains without any help.
Also, please tell me what strings and guage you're using and also what pickups and what kind of pick.

You don't have to play anything special and you could, if you want, just strum across all 6 strings and let it decay,
and then maybe each string individually and let it decay. Open strings are fine in both instances.
Of course if you want to play something then fine but be aware I'm looking for sustain length so please keep that in mind.
Thank you.

I do have a G&L with a Kahler flat mount on it but it replaced the original G&L tail piece and I suspect that the bridge contact
to the body isn't what it should be. It's ok but not a lot of sustain.

Thank you!

Steve

 

[vid1900]

I've got a Kahler flat mount on a Gibson Explorer from the 80s.

It's strung with GHS TnTs.

Is that any help to you?

 

[AirCap]

I installed a buttload of them back in the hair metal 80's - great vibrato systems. Brass has a little more midrange than the steel, and they all sustain well unless dumped. The reason is the strings are not clamped at both ends, so the string length actually increases as the bar is whammied. The harmonics have to move, using up the string's energy. On a Floyd the string length never changes - just the tension, and so the harmonics stay in place.

 

[Steve_Karl]

I've got a Kahler flat mount on a Gibson Explorer from the 80s.

It's strung with GHS TnTs.

Is that any help to you?

Yes. Hearing a straight into your sound card recording with no effects would do the trick.
I've owned an 80's explorer and know GHS boomer 10s. I assume TNTs are similar.
Thank you!

 

[Steve_Karl]

I installed a buttload of them back in the hair metal 80's - great vibrato systems. Brass has a little more midrange than the steel, and they all sustain well unless dumped. The reason is the strings are not clamped at both ends, so the string length actually increases as the bar is whammied. The harmonics have to move, using up the string's energy. On a Floyd the string length never changes - just the tension, and so the harmonics stay in place.

Thanks for the feedback.
In the instance of the G&L that I own, do you think possibly the loss of sustain I'm experiencing is that the Kahler is installed over the route that the original floating system used? I'm thinking the missing wood contact might be the issue?

 

[AirCap]

Thanks for the feedback. In the instance of the G&L that I own, do you think possibly the loss of sustain I'm experiencing is that the Kahler is installed over the route that the original floating system used? I'm thinking the missing wood contact might be the issue?

It's possible, not probable. Could be the installation or setup is not optimal. Could you post some detailed pix?

 

[Steve_Karl]

Thanks for the feedback. In the instance of the G&L that I own, do you think possibly the loss of sustain I'm experiencing is that the Kahler is installed over the route that the original floating system used? I'm thinking the missing wood contact might be the issue?

It's possible, not probable. Could be the installation or setup is not optimal. Could you post some detailed pix?

Yes. They're really big so I put them on my site and directory browsing is enabled.
http://www.sightsea.com/renders/gl/

Thanks for looking.

My thoughts are that there's just a lot of wood missing under it where a Kahler flat mount would be expecting contact with solid wood.

What do you mean by "setup is not optimal" ?

 

[dmraco]

My flat mount kahler is the 2300 series in brass and steel.
https://www.kahlerusa.com/guitar-tremolo-and-bridge/2315-6string-brass-steel

I will work on some sound files for you.

I will saw to you comments:
-There is more contact point with a Kahler than a floyd
-My harmonics are killer with this set up
-My sustain is no better/worse than another other guitar with either a fixed bridge or whammy (with one exception on vintage Les Paul JR that sings to the heavens :icon_biggrin

The largest flaw with a Kahler is some notes can go flat when you are bending other strings (think Johnny B Good).  This can be solved by using a higher gauge spring in the cam system.  I have replaced the springs on all my Kahlers.  The have a nice firm feel more common with a floyd.

At this point you are splitting hairs.  If you like the look or feel of the kahler...do it.

 

[AirCap]

What do you mean by "setup is not optimal" ?

I mean your rig may not be setup for best perfomance. Thanks for the pix, but I was hoping for some side views, too. You have a LOT of just the rear cavity, and those tell me nothing.

So, anyway - having the old vibrato system hole filled with wood will probably give you a better sound. But that's expensive, and takes time. Might not solve your sustain problem.

I wish I could see your axe in person to get this sorted for you. It would be a long process to explain all the things to make your Kahler work best via the internet. Back in the 80's I wrote a series of articles on setting up whammy systems of all kinds for String Instrument Craftsman - a magazine published by Guitar Player magazine for guitar builders and repairman. It only lasted a couple years, and is now available from Guitarmaker magazine or the Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans. You could find copies on eBay, too. Dan Erlewine used to recommend getting copies of them for guys who worked on whammies in repair shops.

 

[Steve_Karl]

My flat mount kahler is the 2300 series in brass and steel.
https://www.kahlerusa.com/guitar-tremolo-and-bridge/2315-6string-brass-steel

I will work on some sound files for you.

I will saw to you comments:
-There is more contact point with a Kahler than a floyd
-My harmonics are killer with this set up
-My sustain is no better/worse than another other guitar with either a fixed bridge or whammy (with one exception on vintage Les Paul JR that sings to the heavens :icon_biggrin

The largest flaw with a Kahler is some notes can go flat when you are bending other strings (think Johnny B Good).  This can be solved by using a higher gauge spring in the cam system.  I have replaced the springs on all my Kahlers.  The have a nice firm feel more common with a floyd.

At this point you are splitting hairs.  If you like the look or feel of the kahler...do it.

Thank you for the detailed description.

 

[dmraco]

also there are some good youtube videos on the topic....

 

[Steve_Karl]

What do you mean by "setup is not optimal" ?

I mean your rig may not be setup for best perfomance. Thanks for the pix, but I was hoping for some side views, too. You have a LOT of just the rear cavity, and those tell me nothing.

So, anyway - having the old vibrato system hole filled with wood will probably give you a better sound. But that's expensive, and takes time. Might not solve your sustain problem.

I wish I could see your axe in person to get this sorted for you. It would be a long process to explain all the things to make your Kahler work best via the internet. Back in the 80's I wrote a series of articles on setting up whammy systems of all kinds for String Instrument Craftsman - a magazine published by Guitar Player magazine for guitar builders and repairman. It only lasted a couple years, and is now available from Guitarmaker magazine or the Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans. You could find copies on eBay, too. Dan Erlewine used to recommend getting copies of them for guys who worked on whammies in repair shops.

Hi - - - Here are some side view pics:
http://www.sightsea.com/renders/gl/side/

Thank you!

 

[dmraco]

you could still fill the holes and not worry about the finish.....thats cheap.

 

[AirCap]

Here are some side view pics

Those are good pics, thanks. Right off hand, it looks to be setup about the way I would recommend.

What strings are you using? Does the Kahler stay in tune for you? Any other problems besides not enough sustain for your style?

 

[Steve_Karl]

Here are some side view pics

Those are good pics, thanks. Right off hand, it looks to be setup about the way I would recommend.

What strings are you using? Does the Kahler stay in tune for you? Any other problems besides not enough sustain for your style?

Hi there - Ernie Ball 9s. It stays in tune really well even after some crazy abuse. No other problems.
I just remember the old original tail piece had more sustain and a thicker tone.

 

[Steve_Karl]

you could still fill the holes and not worry about the finish.....thats cheap.

Yea. I had thought about filling the back up with a nice piece of hard wood after sanding back the paint inside of there,
then gluing it in and putting the chrome cover back on, but the real reason for starting this thread was to make sure
that the lack of sustain wasn't typical for all Kahler flat mounts because I really like the way it feels.

 

[AirCap]

Hi there - Ernie Ball 9s. It stays in tune really well even after some crazy abuse. No other problems. I just remember the old original tail piece had more sustain and a thicker tone.

Dang. Can't help you any more from here, I'm afraid. If I could lay hands on it, who knows?

 

[Steve_Karl]

Hi there - Ernie Ball 9s. It stays in tune really well even after some crazy abuse. No other problems. I just remember the old original tail piece had more sustain and a thicker tone.

Dang. Can't help you any more from here, I'm afraid. If I could lay hands on it, who knows?

Thanks for viewing the pics and talking about it.