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Aniline Dye on Alder

guspac88

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Hey guys, I've got a Flame Maple over Alder strat body coming soon, and was wondering how I should go about finishing the back of the guitar.  Will the alder take blue dye well? I am going to dye the maple blue and would like to keep the back similar if possible, although I know it will be slightly different. 

If it will take dye well, what grit should I sand to before / after the dye? And if it won't, how can I mask the sides so that there is a clean line along the edge?

 
What will your top coat be? The easiest way is to do a burst with tinted clear. It alleviates any masking and provides color on the back. Of course this is predicated  on you spraying your finish and wanting a burst.
 
AirCap said:
You don't sand it AT ALL. Warmoth already sanded it.

Oh, beautiful! That will save a lot of work. I would assume the grain will still raise a bit with the dyes though? If so I'll just hit it lightly after the dyes with 600, helps bring the natural maple through as well. 
 
pabloman said:
What will your top coat be? The easiest way is to do a burst with tinted clear. It alleviates any masking and provides color on the back. Of course this is predicated  on you spraying your finish and wanting a burst.

You know I bought Tru-Oil for the top, but do have a compressor so I'm now second guessing whether I should really use it or spend the cash on a spray gun and clear coat.  Either way though I was hoping for just a straight blue, but I suppose I could live with a bit of burst.
 
Alder is not the most cooperative when it comes to dye finishes.  It will take the dye unevenly, so you'll wind up with areas where it hardly penetrates at all and others where it soaks in pretty good, giving a blotchy appearance.  You'll get better results using a tinted clearcoat if you're set up to do that.  Some folks use regular artists' oil paints as a pigment to tint Tru-Oil, since they are compatible by virtue of the latter product consisting largely of linseed oil, which is the vehicle for the artists' paints.  But if you're in a position to do a genuine spray finish, you  can make a toner using lacquer, poly, or water-based clears colored with universal tints.

I have had good luck using Mixol pigments in lacquer.  Their No. 9 Blue is a pretty bright blue, so if you want something more like an ultramarine, you'll want to add a little No. 11 Violet.  But you can also use Transtint dye concentrate in lacquer. The Transtint product is also labeled as Colortone by Stewart Macdonald.  The blue Transtint/Colortone product is VERY rich blue, nice and deep.

Finally, if the blue aniline dye you already have on hand is soluble in alcohol, you could dissolve the dye at high strength and then make a toner by mixing the dye solution with water-white shellac.  You can apply the shellac with a spraygun or Preval sprayer, and then topcoat that with the clear product of your choice.  I have successfully topcoated a (untinted) shellac barrier with Tru-Oil and it looks lovely.
 
I would assume the grain will still raise a bit with the dyes though? If so I'll just hit it lightly after the dyes with 600, helps bring the natural maple through as well.

Light scuffing with gray Scotchbrite would be fine if you used a water based stain. If you use an alcohol based stain - should be no problemo!
 
AirCap said:
You don't sand it AT ALL. Warmoth already sanded it.

Your anti-sanding posts have become my favorite things on this forum.  I literally spit coffee out across my damn desk!  Every time I see your user name in this part of the forum, I cringe, but secretly hope someone has asked a question about sanding lol!!  :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:
 
Bagman67 said:
Alder is not the most cooperative when it comes to dye finishes.  It will take the dye unevenly, so you'll wind up with areas where it hardly penetrates at all and others where it soaks in pretty good, giving a blotchy appearance.  You'll get better results using a tinted clearcoat if you're set up to do that.  Some folks use regular artists' oil paints as a pigment to tint Tru-Oil, since they are compatible by virtue of the latter product consisting largely of linseed oil, which is the vehicle for the artists' paints.  But if you're in a position to do a genuine spray finish, you  can make a toner using lacquer, poly, or water-based clears colored with universal tints.

I have had good luck using Mixol pigments in lacquer.  Their No. 9 Blue is a pretty bright blue, so if you want something more like an ultramarine, you'll want to add a little No. 11 Violet.  But you can also use Transtint dye concentrate in lacquer. The Transtint product is also labeled as Colortone by Stewart Macdonald.  The blue Transtint/Colortone product is VERY rich blue, nice and deep.

Finally, if the blue aniline dye you already have on hand is soluble in alcohol, you could dissolve the dye at high strength and then make a toner by mixing the dye solution with water-white shellac.  You can apply the shellac with a spraygun or Preval sprayer, and then topcoat that with the clear product of your choice.  I have successfully topcoated a (untinted) shellac barrier with Tru-Oil and it looks lovely.

Lots of useful info here, thanks!  So I do think I'm going to bite the bullet and get a gun to spray since like I said I already have a good compressor.  The dye I have is alcohol soluble, I've been using it in 70% isopropyl, so it sounds to me like the best option is to mix some tinted stuff to spray the back with; should I seal it first or go straight to the tint? Also, if I go with Lacquer (which seems to be the way to go, no?) will the aniline in alchohol also work with that, or would that only work with shellac? Thanks for the detailed response!
 
Isopropyl is the wrong alcohol. It has water in it. You want denatured alcohol.

If you're going to mix that dye with lacquer, you'll want to dilute it with acetone, not alcohol.
 
Cagey said:
Isopropyl is the wrong alcohol. It has water in it. You want denatured alcohol.

If you're going to mix that dye with lacquer, you'll want to dilute it with acetone, not alcohol.

Okay, thanks.  Will mix some new dye with denatured. 

Sounds good with the acetone, I guess my question is; what do I really want to mix the dye with anyway? I'm not too concerned with the "tonal qualities" or hardness, I just want a product that I can tint and that will give a very smooth gloss finish once sanded and buffed, preferably in a shorter period of time.  Is there one product that I can buy and tint half to do the back then spray untinted as clear?  If possible please be specific because I have been doing lots of research but still fail to understand exactly which Polyurethanes stand alone and which Lacquers are acrylic vs nitro, for example. 

If I'm not being clear, I'm good with buying a spray gun (HVLP) to put this on, I would just like a single product to do the whole body with if possible. 

Thanks again!
 
Lacquer is the stuff to use. It all comes clear, so you can tint it with dyes or color it with pigments for opaque finishes. It's not the fastest finish out there, but then, none of them really are. Fine finish work is time consuming and requires a lotta patience. Expect a fine lacquer finish to cost you 3 weeks minimum, more likely 6-8.

You might want to read this article from LMII. It lines out a pretty detailed recipe/procedure/schedule for a proper, professional lacquer finish. Follow that, and you can expect outstanding results. You don't have to use the brands they call out, but the products used exist in all lines and it's good practice to maintain some consistency in supplier to mitigate any potential chemistry differences that may not work/play well together.
 
Here's what blue water based aniline dye looks like on my one alder guitar:

OutGGMm.jpg
 
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