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alembic: ridiculous, crazy, insane prices!

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Orpheo

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200$ for schaller tuners?!
700$ for bookmatch top to center?!
300$ for a continuous trussrod cover?!?!
600$ for a snakewood board?!?! my local timberyard has high grade snakewood for 130$.
silver sidedots: 200$?!

COME ON!!!!

why, why, why is alembic so insanely expensive?! My crimson les paul, with those features listed (though some different woods) is litereally 1/10th the price of this alembic guitar.

are they covered in some devine excrement to warrant such a steep price?
 

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Maybe those are pesos (or some other currency) instead of dollars. There's no sign on them.

I remember the first time I went to Mexico on business back about 100 years ago, I was unfamiliar with... well, everything. Most surprising (at first) were the prices. I thought Mexico was an inexpensive place to live/visit. First exposure was at a restaurant - pretty high end place, to be fair, since I was staying in a very luxurious place - but a steak dinner was $150! I was more than a little concerned, as I'd only brought $500 with me to last 2-3 days. So, I just signed for the meal and figured I'd let the company figure out what to do about it later. Then I found out that they use the $ sign for pesos the same way we do for dollars. Of course, you could get about 80 pesos for a buck, so $150 was really only a little less than $2 in real money.

Incidentally, even at $2 the steak dinner was pricey. I could imagine a dog giving up on that hunk of pseudo-meat. Most of us don't know how good we've got it here.

Once I found out the exchange rate, I was in hog heaven. The $500 I brought was an embarrassment of riches.
 
spauldingrules said:
See warmoth carved top discussion.  Because they can be.
Click to expand...

'course you're right. but still... you can get almost the same, for much, much less.
 
My recollection was that it used to be when you ordered an Alembic through a dealer, it'd be discounted quite a bit.

But I think Alembic went from just "expensive" to "cost is no object expensive" some time back.
 
you know, Name can get price, Just look at a Gibson, they set a price standard and with the reputation they get it
As Does PRS,
I will give that going through wood till you find one that sets up to your fine standards can be expensive, as reflected in the "10 tops" of PRS, and exposed wood finishes are a lot harder to apply than painted such as Fender offers, But then look at the Custom Shop stuff they put out for the same price as others.

I think what we see here is we expect to pay a premium for a nicer guitar, so we do. But my question is, "Do we Really?". And in asking that I wonder if we really are paying to much for CNC produced stuff when we prove every month on this board what can be produced by amateurs with proper guidance. OK OK so most of us need a professional luthier to dial in the necks properly or have a buddy do the electronics, but besides that we produce some nice axes, made from a very nice grade of parts each month for a lot less than what the boutiques ask for.
I am not comparing them to hand carved carved instruments, I am not putting them up against the corporate world, or even including labor cost. But what I am saying is that a nice guitar is within the ability of most guys to do. And if that is the case, then what exactly are we paying for when we look at boutique guitars?

Does just the name carry that much value? What is the resale value of our product compared to theirs ? Do we include that into the value of the axe? Or the asking price?
Once again I will mention my friend Micheal Mollenhauer and his guitars, his philosophy is he can produce and sell, making a profit a guitar of the quality of the Big boys for a lot less. He walked into GC a few years back looking for a Les Paul and was shocked at what they tried to sell him as a Quality product, It was not set up, it was of bad construction and generally a cookie cutter massed produced POS, so he started Mollenhauer Guitars, I own a G35, (ES335 Clone) and it screams, has the build guality of a classic Gibson, the neck has a better prep job than my PRS had from the factory and it cost less than 1200 clams. want Lollars and some upgrades and the price goes up.

But there we go, even the professionals can put it out with a good top wood and make a profit at a price we can all live with for an upgrade guitar.

So what are we paying for when we go for these up priced guitars? At what point does the name alone demand the price? What is offered that demands the price ? Or is it the investment value of the name?

I know if you were asking me I would say that the resale means nothing to me, after owning a axe a year or two it is ruined for the resale market, dings, chips,dents,scratches, discolored hardware from sweat. having fallen, or been knocked off the stand, you know standard gigging wear and tear. I think guitars are for playing not to be in a display case.
The only non modified guitar I have is the PRS, have not found anything to improve, everything else gets changes as I want to improve this or that so Stoc isnot an option and when you go and change stuff you ruin the value of a guitar.

So, once again, Just what is the draw unless it is a hand carved and made oldschool dreadnaught hollowbody ? where does the value come in with the high price ? When does super pricey mean super good? And when does Just enough mean better value?

Is it us? Are we drinking the koolaid of the corporate world, paying out the high prices at the demise of our pocketbooks, or is there actually a value there?

Just what is that commercial when the guy sits down on the stairs on the yacht and ask if they can return the champagne ?

anyway, sorry for the rant, I was just wondering if we were collecting art, or playing an instrument.

 
It's Alembic, do you really have to ask?

They charge what they do, because they can. It's the same as any other high end/boutique anything.
This is like questioning the cost of a Rolls Royce...
 
@jusatele: where's the rant? :) what you're saying is exactly my thinking. We want premium guitars, and we are willing to pay for it, but when is an instrument premium? a gibson is premium compared to an epiphone, but still. alembic is premium to gibson, but where does that leave us? most of us build very, very nice guitars, with either a great finish from warmoth or tonar, or a homebrew. where homebrew isn't meant as a negative thing, but it is what it is: a finish done by the eventual owner, most of the time at home!

and what about the timber? warmoth's wood is one of the best I've come across, and really, I've tried my hands on MANY guitars! I own 2 gibson les pauls, used to own 15 gibson les pauls, I have a 'huber ghostbuild' les paul (unofficially a huber, but it is a huber anyway). and my warmoths are just as fine as those 'premiums'.

the thing that stricks me is that alembic in fact is doing a lot of stuff by CNC. perhaps as much, or more by CNC than warmoth. no, its not intented as a bad thing/rant, just an observation.

but what you're saying, 'does just the name carry that much value'. I think so. unfortunately. Look at schaller. their stuff has been on a slipperly slope, QC wise, for the last decade and a half, or so, at LEAST. Gotoh has surpassed them by and large, but still, schaller is more expensive. its just the name that sells.

what strikes me is that so many people who haven't ever build a guitar, or assembled one, always ask about resale value. but why should I even concern myself with that? I want a guitar with specific specs, and if I want Gibson to build it, I can sell it off better than a warmoth, by name, but worst, because a gibson with the specs I want will cost 10 times what a warmoth costs! and that will put people off HUGELY compared to a warmoth with just as nice specs, better craftmanship, better wood, and a lower pricetag.

i recognise what you say about that PRS. The only guitar I never felt a need to improve or modify was... well, crap, can't think of one :D perhaps my custombuild crimsons, but thats not fair. I think my old gibson SG or flying V. they were exactly as I wanted them in the beginning.

@line6man I'm not too familiar with alembic. its not really a common brand here in the Netherlands.
 
Orpheo said:
@line6man I'm not too familiar with alembic. its not really a common brand here in the Netherlands.
Click to expand...

Alembic is a brand that produces some of the most expensive instruments out there. Most people who are familiar with them accept this as a simple fact.
Like I said, this is like if you had posted a thread saying "Is Rolls Royce insane!? $10K for a hood ornament!?..." Alembic charges what they do because they can, and people are paying it.

Btw, their instruments are handmade in Santa Rosa California, IIRC. That's why you don't see them in the Netherlands.

Also, Stanley Clark has been a long-time endorser, but he pays for his instruments out-of-pocket. If you want to see one in action, check out some Stanley Clarke videos.
 
Rolls defines value not only to the high end user, but also the guy with a Ford Fiesta, it would be hard to compare there, more like maybe a Weatherby rifle to a Ruger. But then look at the insane value of a Stradivarius.
Orpheo, you read it as I wanted to express it, I meant to each there is a value for different things, to me an instrument is an extension of my feelings, to others they can be a work of art. Yes I want the nice finish and stuff because I like it, but in the end if I own it it will be used, and beat up eventually. I remember the reverence I had for my Custom 22 till I turned around and the back of the neck hit a cymbal. OUCH . But in the end it did me a favor, it destroyed the pristine resale value so I was able to play it like I stole it.

Anyway, Yes they can charge what they want, and they will get such, but my limit is what it cost to get what I want, and 3 grand is the high end of that limit,I prefer to play around 1200,, and we all know with 1200 US you can assemble one killer Warmoth and still have money to have a luthier do a killer neck setup.
 
Orpheo, I can understand your shock at their prices, particularly for hardware items that can be bought elsewhere for far less. But Alembic is Alembic....It's a well known boutique name in Guitars and more so in Basses. I had priced out a Tribute guitar when I was thinking of a 'custom guitar' in tribute to my Mum, but I really couldn't justify the price and well, and Alembic was not what my Mum was about so the tribute would not have been fitting.

What I ended up getting was exactly what I could afford and also matched my memory of my mother far more succinctly than any Martin, Gibson, Yamaha or Alembic could have achieved.

I have always eyed an Alembic, but to me, their Basses are far better as an instrument than their guitars. And I am not a real Bass Guitar player. I can 'get by' on bass, but no, I don't class myself as one. So to buya  bass guitar for $23000 + is definitely going to be an over indulgence for me. No doubt their 'hippie sandwich' wood selection is very good looking and I'd like to hear one or two of their guitars to see how they sounded, but to outlay the money they ask for them is kinda out of my reach & hard to justify.

At some stage I think most of us have to realise we have other more pressing and important things in our life than amassing an impressive collection of guitars...things like paying bills, buying a new fridge, lounge suite or oven, or renovating your home, these things need attention too. With what Alembic charges for their guitars & basses, you could pay all your bills, buy a lounge suite, oven and fridge, plus have a tradesman come in to do some work on your home AND STILL HAVE CHANGE!! I hope that brings it all into some perspective.

Orpheo, you have an amazing collection of guitars that are really the envy of many of us here with the selections of woods in those Warmoth LPs alone. Plus you have those Crimson LPs hopefully heading your way soon too. How much do you play bass that would warrant the price of an Alembic bass to those specs btw? Could you not get a Warmoth Bass made up with similar woods and not notice much difference?

Jusatele said:
Rolls defines value not only to the high end user, but also the guy with a Ford Fiesta, it would be hard to compare there, more like maybe a Weatherby rifle to a Ruger.
Click to expand...

I have owned a Ford Fiesta for the last 5 years and the car has done 250K of kilomteres and is still going strong. And it has hardly missed a beat doing so. It gets me to work and back home in some comfort and I am able to work the shifts I do because I have a car at the ready to drive to Sydney and not rely upon public transport. In short, the car has kept me employed & allowed me to earn the money I make. Very reliable car , with some economy and performance. Could a Rolls do any better? I seriously doubt it, but it would be far more comfortable and I'd turn heads wherever I go,lol.
 
There is, for many people, "something" about having an "original."  One may not be able to tell a copy from the original mona lisa, but for some reason the original is more desirable.  Of course, most would rather have the copy plus the value of the original, but not all (ie John Paul Jones or Les Claypool or whoever is rich and likes fancy basses).
 
line6man said:
It's Alembic, do you really have to ask?

They charge what they do, because they can. It's the same as any other high end/boutique anything.
This is like questioning the cost of a Rolls Royce...
Click to expand...

+1 on this.  Does it really cost $380,000 to build a Rolls Royce?  After all, they have aluminum bits just like any basic Chevy.  Let's not forget their iron block engines.  Is the iron used to make a RR engine block any different from the iron used to make a generic Chevy V8?   :icon_scratch:

People pay a premium for a name.  They always have.  Try selling a Warmoth, one which you've spent $2000 on, and see what you get for it.  It won't matter how nice it is, because you'll be lucky to get $600 for it, for no other reason than the name.  You and I both know Warmoth products are top notch, but "Average Joe" doesn't.  "Average Joe" is going to research Warmoth and come to the conclusion they're "kit guitars."
 
Hehe! Well, I may have been exaggerating a little bit. Hell, I've seen dogs clean the cat's litter box just for a snack. What I meant was it was some extra-tough and tasteless stuff. Not quite as tough as a rawhide bone, which I've also seen dogs eat, but certainly more so than I wanted to deal with. Lotta difference between the old grain-fed beasts they chop up down there and the young corn-fed stuff we're used to here.
 
Ever try to eat a goose? In Europe the farm-raised ones are delicacies, but they shoot 'em here and the U.S. version are the ones that fly omp-thousands of miles back and forth all spring and fall their whole lives. It's all gristle. A lot of game is that way, those little eastern scrub deer are fast and skinny cause everybody's shootin' at them.
 
Yeah, I've had goose a number of times, but I'm sure it was farm-raised rather than wild, so it's been pretty good. As for the deer, I'm not a big fan, but I'm pretty sure most of the ones taken here are just spikehorns, so they're too young to be very tough. This is Michigan, and we grow one helluva lotta deer here, to the point where most would starve to death their first year if they weren't culled. Looking around, it appears since the mid-'80s we've been harvesting between 450,000 to 600,000 deer per year. As for shootin' at 'em, many rifle hunters are giving up because the herd is getting too thinned too fast or too spooked from the youth/disabled/bow hunter crowd that precedes rifle season. Of course, that could very well just be sour grapes. The DNR sells 1.1 to 1.2 million licenses per year, so less than half the hunters are getting one.
 
Ya know, if you're into game there are only two names:  Moose and Buffalo. 

Both of these are real good.  Bullwinkle tastes gooood.


Yours, Mayfly

BTW - these are/were shot by my dad.  I can't seem to hit a barn.
 
stubhead said:
Ever try to eat a goose? In Europe the farm-raised ones are delicacies, but they shoot 'em here and the U.S. version are the ones that fly omp-thousands of miles back and forth all spring and fall their whole lives. It's all gristle. A lot of game is that way, those little eastern scrub deer are fast and skinny cause everybody's shootin' at them.
Click to expand...
You know, when you see a flock of Canada Gees heading across the sky in that V shape - one side is always longer than the other side. Do you know why that is?
 
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