Acoustic guitar top woods (added pics 29/09 page 2)

[Nando Vallart]

Hey guys!!

I'm planning ordering a custom acoustic guitar and would like to know if someone can help me with woods for the top...

The backwood and the model is pretty much set up as, when I was drunk by sleepyness, ordered a striped Macassar Ebony back for small guitar (7-1/4" wide) thru LMII... This sets me on the martin 00 model:

Obvious, I'm not ordering a martin. I'm going to have a brazilian luthier building it.

My main resource used to "decide" on the back and my thoughts now about topwood was the Taylor website... On these pages talking about wood and tone:
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/features/woods/Tone/
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/features/woods/BodyWoods/?bw=macassar
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/features/woods/TopWoods/

Now I'm thinking on the top... One of the luthiers that I get the first contact about building a guita, some months ago said to avoid Rosewood and go for the Mahogany as I want a big fat tone... As Macassar seems to be close to mahogany (with a tad more highs) and it's very beautyfull I went for it, in a GAS moment...

So, I'm trying to figure what shall I use to keep the tone fat... Though first on the Engelmann, Carpathian or the Adirondack Spruce. They seems to have more mids and fuller sound than Sitka.... Then I thought about putting a Mahogany top... Not sure if it's a good idea...

Does anybody here has any thoughts about it?
Thanks!!
Fernando Esteves

 

[hannaugh]

I personally don't think you can go wrong with Sitka or Engelmann.  I wouldn't do mahogany for the top, honestly.  The range isn't big enough.  Although, it all kind of depends on what type of music you want to play on it. 

That shape is awesome!  Is yours going to have a slotted headstock like that?

 

[bagman67]

I recently played a couple of guitars in a local premium shop with macassar ebony back/sides, and they were topped with redwood.  Holy smokes, they were nice.  Definitely dark sounding - playing in the upper registers, I was very pleased by how much midrange power there was.  Of course, one was a dreadnought and the other was a jumbo, not exactly the size you seem to be considering, so the responsiveness of the redwood top in your circumstance might be different.

Peace

Bagman

 

[Nightclub Dwight]

Most of the mahogany acoustics I've seen have been all mahogany.  So, I would not use mahogany unless I was building the entire guitar out of mahogany.

I like Bagman's redwood suggestion, or whichever flavor of spruce you most like.

I love small acoustics, this is going to turn out really nice.

 

[Nando Vallart]

Cool! Thanks for the answers!!

I personally don't think you can go wrong with Sitka or Engelmann.  I wouldn't do mahogany for the top, honestly.  The range isn't big enough.  Although, it all kind of depends on what type of music you want to play on it. 

That shape is awesome!  Is yours going to have a slotted headstock like that?

I'm not 100% decided on it, but seems that it would be cool to have a vintage look, don't you think? I'm only affraid that this headstock seems weak with these slots... :tard:
I'm going to play blues and rock, playing with a pick... I usually have a heavy hand...

And what is the main difference of Redwood and Cedar?

 

[hannaugh]

Usually people say that cedar is better if you're going to be playing with your fingers, and that it tends to get muddy if you're playing with a pick.  I've never heard anything about redwood though. 

 

[TBurst Std]

Redwood is a softer wood like cedar and is more easily overdriven as a top. If you are using a pick and heavy handed, those 2 would be my last choices.

 

[bagman67]

I have a pretty light touch and pretty clean articulation on single-note stuff with a pick, so didn't encounter mush, but I do agree that cedar and redwood can sometimes be muddy - so your point is well taken.  I do love how warm they sound, though.

 

[Nando Vallart]

hummm I read it about cedar, that if you play hard it loses clarity... and my question was toward this, if Redwood had the same thing as people say the tone is alike... thanks Tburst, I may keep on the Spruce... Now which kind is the matter

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Cedar is very soft stuff, it dents really easily.  On an acoustic front, the finish is quite light to keep the weight down and the vibrations strong.  This means it doesn't really protect the wood much from any impact.  I have had a nylon string unravel and snap against the front of one of my acoustics and it put a very nice mark into the wood.

Spruce is a very nice wood, quite springy.  On acoustics, it gets better with age.  After about 10-15 years of age they tend to be the nicest sounding.  I can't say how true this is, but my acoustic with a spruce top has settled into a great sounding beast. 

It looks like a fun guitar to play with.
Patrick

 

[bagman67]

Spruce is a very nice wood, quite springy.  On acoustics, it gets better with age.  After about 10-15 years of age they tend to be the nicest sounding.  I can't say how true this is, but my acoustic with a spruce top has settled into a great sounding beast. 

My Martin DM has a spruce top and it's about 17 years old - and I have played the hell out of it since it was new.  It looks a little worse for wear-and-tear (it started out satin-finished and is shiny in all the contact areas), but it sounds AMAZING.  Better than most brand new guitars starting at five times its original price (about 600 bucks with a case).  And when I hit it hard, it stays well-defined.  Spruce = good, and loud, too.

 

[reluctant-builder]

I have a cedar top on my acoustic and I can attest to it being much better, tonally, when not strumming it like a punk rock electric.

 

[Cagey]

I have a spruce top on my acoustic and I can attest to it being much better, tonally, no matter what the hell I do.

 

[AutoBat]

If I ever buy an acoustic, I'll be sure to let you know what wood it's got.

 

[reluctant-builder]

I have a spruce top on my acoustic and I can attest to it being much better, tonally, no matter what the hell I do.

:icon_biggrin:

Is spruce harder than cedar? Cedar seems to be pretty soft, so that's probably the reason for its muddiness with more vigorous strumming.

 

[Cagey]

Is spruce harder than cedar? Cedar seems to be pretty soft, so that's probably the reason for its muddiness with more vigorous strumming.

Yeah, but not as much as I thought. Sitka Spruce is 28 lb/ft3, while Red Cedar is 23 lb/ft3

There's a bit of a database here you might want to bookmark for future reference. You can compare the above to some other woods you're more familiar with to get a feel for the numbers.

 

[SkuttleFunk]

don't confuse wood density with wood hardness. for wood hardness, you want to refer to the Jenka scale. there's a good pdf comparing many woods at this location

http://tinytimbers.com/janka.htm  (click the image on the left to see the pdf document)

similarly, don't confuse wood density or hardness with stiffness

all the best,

R

 

[Cagey]

Thanks! I've added that to my growing collection of such charts.

 

[jackthehack]

I don't play a lot of acoustic, but have played a ton to include vintage Martins/Gibsons. I've owned Ovations for at least a couple of decades and got one of the Koa topped ones for Xmas 2006, and the difference between the Koa and my previous ones is amazing. Mine has light (less than 3A flame), would you have the option to get a nice piece of Flame Koa to do the top? I'd vote for that..

 

[Nando Vallart]

I don't play a lot of acoustic, but have played a ton to include vintage Martins/Gibsons. I've owned Ovations for at least a couple of decades and got one of the Koa topped ones for Xmas 2006, and the difference between the Koa and my previous ones is amazing. Mine has light (less than 3A flame), would you have the option to get a nice piece of Flame Koa to do the top? I'd vote for that..

Sure... I can go for it, but I was affraid as it's told to be more trebbly... as I'm looking for a not-very usual tone, thicker than normal I was not thinking on it... But surely would be very beautifull... How does sound this guitar?