A Modern Contoured Heel

satchurator

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The Warmoth contoured heel option has existed unchanged for many years.

What I personally don't like about it is that the screws meet the neck plate at an angle (which is the main motivation for adding a neck plate pad beneath the neck plate in this scenario, defeating the purpose IMO).

I totally get that replacement compatibility is a major constraining factor, but surely the current design can be improved upon or a better alternative added to the options?

Can appropriately sized ferrules be sourced such that the existing contoured heel and screw layout could be offered with ferrule countersinking?

Can we take inspiration from Anderson/Suhr/Ibanez etc. and have a proprietary contoured heel and screw layout for Warmoth builders? The exclusive compatibility of the 7/8 body and Warhead neck is precedent for this.

Yours hopefully,

Chris
 
I've been drinking green tea all day....and now you're gonna bring out the demon in me??!!  :icon_biggrin:




You will never find a more ardent advocate for a comfortable contoured heel than me. I don't like feeling a sharp corner in the palm of my hand every time I go for the glory notes any more than you do.


But....


Here are a few of the factors Warmoth has to wrestle with:


1. Fender's vintage/original USA heel and neck pocket spec is the cornerstone of our business. How far do you dare stray from the thing thing that pays your rent and keeps the lights on?


2. Our products are complicated enough as it is. Us veterans may have no problem navigating the dizzying array of options, but first-timers are intimidated. How much more complicated can we make things before the amount of options is more harmful than helpful? Our options need to be simpler to understand, not harder. Our website needs to be simpler to order from, not harder.


3. We are a parts company. We don't sell guitars or kits, we sell parts. As such, we need to have maximum compatibility.


4. Indeed, there are several precedents among the Warmoth line-up for proprietary development. 7/8 line. Short scale bass line. Bass6. 7-string. Couldn't a line of guitar bodies with contoured heels be among them? Yes, it could, but that would bring up a whole new set of problems. For example...what necks are you going to use with them? If change the bolt pattern, you can't use Modern Construction necks, because of the Side-Adjust Mechanism. If you do change the bolt pattern and only offer the Vintage/Modern necks, you can't get a Floyd Nut....which is going to be a commonly requested option for use with bodies with contoured heels. So do you have to develop a new neck to go along with these new bodies?


5. All of this requires a considerable financial investment. People think this stuff is easy. It's not. It is never a slam-dunk. The recent development of the NFT Floyd Rose bridge rout was not easy. There were huge problems behind the scenes that almost no one knows about. Developing that option cost Warmoth a lot of money....that we still have not recouped in orders for it.


Want me to lay myself bare? OK...here is the raw truth: If I were the king of Warmoth, my short list of immediate new options to develop would be:


A. Rolled fretboard edges.
B. A true contoured heel design.
C. A new neck construction that features a traditional single truss-rod and options for binding, Floyd nuts, etc.


Secondary new options would be:


D. A new neck construction with spoke-wheel truss rod (possibly the same new neck construction as #C above).
E. New, modern body designs, and a general move away from any designs over 50 years old. (dangerous....see #1 above.)
F. A broader selection of neck back profiles
F. A broader selection of less extreme compound radius fretboard options. (e.g. 9.5"-14")


I've voiced all these suggestions (many times). The execs have listened. They are actually very receptive to the input of the employees here. But they also have to weigh the cost of developing and implementing these things into a large-scale production environment against the potential financial return.


Making those decisions is hard. Once you decide, developing that products and options is hard. Figuring out how to integrate them into the current product process is hard, Then figuring out how to shoe-horn all the new stuff into an already overly-complicated website is hard. Trying to figure out how to market them in a way that even new customers can understand is hard.


To sum up: it's not that we don't want to. It's just all really, really hard.


Don't get me wrong. I love my job.


But you asked. :)
 
Oh, one more thing: Warmoth doesn't shy away from things just because they are hard. They just take some time to get right.


We've already got some really cool new options in store for 2019, (including some of the things I mentioned above)!


Stay tuned....
 
Wow, Aaron is on fire today! What brand of green tea are you drinking?! ;)

Thanks for the detailed response. Yes, compatibility is the big constraint. I am definitely not assuming that it's easy!

Your wishlist is a great one. I am with you on every single item! Super-encouraging to hear that some of those could be in the works.

Chris




 
Aaron- Great list, I'd just add three words: Thumb Nail Inlays
(I can't believe they'd be as hard to implement as those recently added. Just a thought.......)
 
Agreed.

He should probably copy that response into a file so he can cut/paste it in every few weeks when such questions come up.
 
Ι stopped the suggestions when I realized the brands turtle is not there by accident. No matter the reasons, Warmoth is going slowly. I like what everyone has suggested, if they'll make it happen expect to take at least 20 years for all. I have also realized that Warmoth is a Fender based company, they have paid for the licence and it makes sense to promote Fender and not Ibanez solutions for those who want to modify their guitars. I'm sure they know they are loosing customers for insisting on the existing compound radius or not offering full options for all their necks but like Aaron said there's a lot of work to be done.

BTW...this is the ideal contoured heel (sorry Doug), ergonomically and aesthetically, IMO



My opinion for contoured heel and since we are in 2019... I believe it should be by default and free of charge in all bodies except the vintage strat & tele body. Those who don't want it should pay extra, not the other way around.
 
I don't think they're slow, they're just careful, and I appreciate that.
 
Regarding the Modern construction side adjust and different neck screw locations I just reviewed a diagram and the Warmoth video showing the side-adjust internal components and drilled a new hole through the body into the neck for my DIY contoured heel on a strat type body that had no pre-drilled neck screw holes. Of course this was not the same hole location as fender contour neck plates which would intersect the side-adjust.

Voila, comfortable heel contour and a Modern construction neck. I probably could have put the new hole a few mm further towards the centre but it was enough to make a meaningful difference to my ability to shape down the treble side. Also I shortened the 2 screws closest to the neck by the same amount which helped given that I did not relocate the hole on the bass side but did contour the heel on both sides.

Pics can be seen on my Work in Progress thread. I'll have the completed article with neck attached there soon. Of course this method assumes you don't mind having 5 holes in your guitar neck heel and will be finishing the guitar after this work.

Thanks to Hendrix for inspiration on the countersinking and shaping. I second the rolled edges and additional compound radius options :)
 
If I can offer an idea for further Warmoth development including contoured heel and modern design guitars (I see like guitar music left out mainstream and mostly left in heavy styles so I believe you need to move that way) I would offer to adopt Ibanez AANJ neck pocket.

Old Ibanez guitars from the 90s are actually compatible with fender necks, but AANJ is definitely a step forward. And speaking about compatibility there are bodies and necks from different manufacturers available on the market. I would assume it's the second most popular format of a neck joint. Even fender neck joint is far ahead.

It's not that easy, because Ibanez had 22 (s-series and derivatives for example) and 24 (RG) frets neck with AANJ, but it looks like interesting idea for me. And nobody is stopping you from making Ibanez RG( well, you already have a soloist, it's pretty much the same) and S-series looking bodies with fender joint cause bodies like that existed in the 90s.

So it's possible to start with small changes. Just add have one more neck pocket option for strat/soloist bodies, one more option for the neck heel (22 AANJ). Here we can add s-series bodies both with square and 22 AANJ heels (S series mostly have 22 frets neck and I would love to replace my chunky start body to sleek S-series, but preserve strat character by using ash and vintage trem/hardtail).

Then we add 24 fret AANJ to pocket and heel options for soloist/RG/S/strat/etc bodies and neck
 
Or perhaps it's the idea of a modern contoured heel that's important. Perhaps it doesn't really matter if the heel of a Strat is more comfortable. Perhaps a nice smooth heel feels great when you hold or pick up the guitar. But when you play it - does it really matter?

What do you guys think? Is it really that important? :dontknow:
I've had two Warmoth bodies previously with contoured heels. But the latest body, from the showcase, didn't have a contoured heel. And I realized that I didn't really feel any difference between these bodies.
These guys doesn't seem to mind the standard heel ...

[youtube]https://youtu.be/XjzYDbeRL-Y[/youtube]

[youtube]https://youtu.be/D4OxW_0qqv8[/youtube]

[youtube]https://youtu.be/LoZCpEYLISw[/youtube]

 
To me, it's never been the heel contour or thickness that was a problem so much as access to the upper frets, which is limited by the lower cutaway. But, you start changing that and you change the aesthetics of the body design, which I'd wager most would find unacceptable.
 
Before I got into telecasters, I played set neck and through-neck guitars for decades.  My main guitar then had a highly contoured heel and great upper fret access.

I honestly find that I don't miss it on the tele.  YMMV and all that.
 
Mayfly said:
Before I got into telecasters, I played set neck and through-neck guitars for decades.  My main guitar then had a highly contoured heel and great upper fret access.

I honestly find that I don't miss it on the tele.  YMMV and all that.

My point exactly!
 
Relevant to this topic - Fender are teasing new products to be announced on November 5th and are already highlighting a new heel design.

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/youll-never-play-a-fender-the-same-way-again-according-to-the-guitar-giants-mysterious-new-teaser
 
satchurator said:
Relevant to this topic - Fender are teasing new products to be announced on November 5th and are already highlighting a new heel design.

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/youll-never-play-a-fender-the-same-way-again-according-to-the-guitar-giants-mysterious-new-teaser
i just woke up from one of my micro-hibernations asnd that blue finish is dope af and all, but that heel looks like the one they use on the elite series
 
To me, it's never been the heel contour or thickness that was a problem so much as access to the upper frets, which is limited by the lower cutaway.

Yuppers. I had a jazz client come in years ago and had me saw off the horn on his Strat and paint the raw wood black. Then he could kick his wrist around and get all those Holdsworth type chords way up on the neck.
 
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