6 position Free-way toogle HELP

NonsenseTele

Senior member
Messages
8,256
Hello friends! I've come once again asking for help, on my bare knees to the ground!!!

I'm finishing a guitar in a course January 4th or 5th, but there is a major problem. I can't make a Tele wiring by my own and the teacher has got a load of work in the end of the year, so she won't be able to draw the wiring diagram before the classes and I need it before the classes.

Why? I'm on vacation until January 7th and then need to go back to work and that is a problem. She has a small child and can't give me classes on saturday anymore and can't use the shop at night, so virtually I'll need to stop doing classes with her and I've no idea who in SP could rent/give me classes...

So, the guitar is good to go on January 5th or else.

The guitar has 2 P90s and a piezo bridge with a 6 position Free-way 3x3-05 toogle.
Toogle will be:
1 - bridge
2 - bridge/neck parallel
3 - neck
4 - bridge/neck SERIES
5 - ??
6 - piezo

The ?? I've no idea in anything usefull, could be even the same as 4, which probably will be the most used position...

pickups 1 vol and 1 ton
piezo 1 vol

I know it's not a simple thing to do, so I'm willing to do a free-job deal, DM quote.
Cheers
 

Sadie-f

Senior member
Messages
427
In general, I'd say you can't wire a piezo in  alongside your magnetics, that said, I'm only familiar with a couple of peizo setups, mostly with the Ghost from Graphtec.

The problem is that the piezo needs to go through a preamp which is usually switched in and out separate from all magnetics / passive pickups. This is a good thing, as it let you blend mag & piezo-acoustic signals simultaniously.

 

Rick

Senior member
Messages
4,323
I’d write to freeway and ask them if it was doable and if they had any wiring diagrams that could get you close to what you want. The piezo is the tricky part.

Also, isn’t sp the biggest city in South America?  Or at least that’s what I heard in the song baby by os mutantes.  There must be another tech who can help you.  Hang in there.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,217
Hopefully the below some including the OP will find useful. (I woke up early this morning so here are some thoughts)

Personally I would approach it a different way. Lets call it "Top Down Design" rather than focussing on the components and fitting a design into those from the bottom up.

So here is the first set of things you need to consider from a system perspective...lets assume the system purpose is known which it is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Magnetic pickup (s )
Piezo Pickup

Magnetic controls
Piezo Controls

Switching system for selecting magnetic pickup combination if more than one magnetic pickup.
Switching system for selecting magnetic / piezo / both

Output for magnetic
Output for Piezo
Output for both

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note there is no mention yet of how many pickups or what switches. You could draw out the above as a set of boxes that are interconnected to show system flow.

Lets take one box of that flow.

          Magnetic Pickup (s)

You then add detail to that. 2 * P90s

And so on for each separate part of the system. Then reiterate how each part of the system will interact. Then you start to consider components.

Lets take a couple more parts of the system...to look at component selection...

Switching system for selecting magnetic pickup combination if more than one magnetic pickup.
Switching system for selecting magnetic / piezo / both

Questions...

Can both of these systems be combined into one switch?
Will it need separate switches for these functions?

What designs already exist that can be drawn upon?  (called not inventing the wheel if you don't have to)

At this point one thing I would question is I don't think a single six way switch will be able to combine those functions (I have in the past looked at the switch in question and made a quite detailed diagram with it) so you will probably need a separate switch. Or you might do mags only via the Freeway and only rely on volumes to blend in and out Piezos / Mags.

Hint I think you need a separate switch for these functions...

The trick is to design the system first and then select components, reiterate where needed. Don't tie down a design  or constrain it too early.






 

NonsenseTele

Senior member
Messages
8,256
Freeway answered with an almost equal schematic of what I need, few changes will be need
thanks guys
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,217
FernandoEsteves said:
THat is what they sent to me

I see the input from the Piezo on the diagram is labelled as Compatible Piezo Signal though what Piezo pickup are you using as this on its own to this circuit via the Freeway would go to a passive magnetic volume and tone and won't sound that great.

A piezo bridge normally needs dedicated volume of a different value. Fishman for example sell a pot called a Powerchip. But the supplied diagram without a means of making the piezo a compatible signal is missing something and of course you have no possibility to blend piezo and magnetic signals.
 

Sadie-f

Senior member
Messages
427
To expand on stratmania above, when I installed piezo saddles in a bridge, I looked at the signal output.

A mag pickup with an internal resistance if say 5-20k ohms, only generates at most a couple hundred mV, it also sources something like a milliamp of current.

I found the piezo saddles have a higher voltage signal, but that's in a circuit with >mega ohm resistance (both the piezo and the voltmeter).  The current output is a small number of micro-amps. For this reason, the output wire of each graphtech ghost saddle is a tiny coax, to minimize emf interference.

Unless there's a preamp between the piezo and the rest of the wiring, that much smaller signal will be swamped in noise, I doubt there's enough signal to drive a guitar amp.




 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,217
I would also go back to the post I made before. Too many things are being combined on one switch with one common output and a common set of volume and tone controls for magnetics and piezo for it to be in my opinion an effective system.

The Freeway diagram does state "Compatible Piezo Signal " so something is needed to make it compatible. And if you have that you could have a separate switch for example for Piezo/Mag/Both and individual controls, separate outputs etc.
 

NonsenseTele

Senior member
Messages
8,256
I haven't finished the guitar and didn't do the wiring yet.
But it will have a different volume for the piezo and stereo jack
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,217
FernandoEsteves said:
I haven't finished the guitar and didn't do the wiring yet.
But it will have a different volume for the piezo and stereo jack

Then the Freeway diagram as it is will not work. Which Piezo system are you planning to use?
 

Sadie-f

Senior member
Messages
427
Fernando, I had a conversation with a colleague yesterday about pickups, and along the way, he showed me a piezo preamp he manufactured. (It wasn't a huge surprise, earlier in his career, he built / repaired guitar amplifiers.)

Unlike all the other piezo preamps today, that want to take center stage, forcing you to route the mag pickups thru a 1:1 gain section, his is just an input, output, volume, and 9v battery power supply.

I'm pretty sure you could drop its output directly into the diagram you received from freeway, or probably any mag wiring diagram, and it will look like just another pickup, albeit with its own volume pot.

DM me if you'd like to be put in touch.
 
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