12string builds

[TonyW]

I am just about to start putting together a 12 string build i have been thinking about for a while, i am hearing a Rick type sound that i would like to try and emulate and have some ideas of how to maybe achieve it.

1: I like the thought of the LS5 with F holes but i would prefer a double cut away

2: LPS chambered i dont know if you can get an F hole routed but can only ask

3 Tele maybe a 72 thinline again a single cut away

4 Solid Body Jazzmaster, i dont think these are available chambered

and maybe use sone TV Jones type of pickup that fit a HB route

I have done 2 strat types so want to move on from that shape.

Any ideas or personal preferences would be most welcome.

thanks
Tony

 

[jay4321]

I've been thinking along these lines myself lately, as far as a Warmoth 12-string.

The LS5 seems like a great option with the f-holes, however a double cutaway is not possible on the chambered bodies due to the chamber location (I just asked about this). Although the LS5 looks pretty good as is for the task.

A tele version would look pretty good as well, though when chambered the neck weight might be a consideration. I was thinking going with something like mahogany to help weigh down the body side.

As far as getting the Rick sound, that's a tall order, but I think a chambered body and the 12 strings will get you pretty close by default. 

 

[TonyW]

Hi Jay thanks for the feedback!!

Yeah mahogony crossed my mind for the warmth of the tone to maybe counteract the highs from the 12 strings.
Hadnt considered the weight aspect but being heavier it would counter balance the weight particularily from the
12 tuners.

 

[mayfly]

I've been thinking about this for a long time. 

Tuner weight/neck dive will be an issue.  I'm currently investigating the lightest locking tuners available (sperzel seems to be winning).
Not sure if the tele shape will balance with all that weight out front, but the L5S and J-Master should work out OK.

As far as rick sound goes - it's tough.  I've owned and played ricks since the late 80's, and they are interesting beasts.  Sadly, you can't use rick pickups in a 'normal' build because the string spacing is far too narrow on the rick pickups.  And don't let those toasters fool you - they have individual pole pieces.  Also, RIcks are all maple apart from the fingerboard - this makes them fairly bright to begin with.

I'm currently torn between TV Jones and lipstick pickups.  Ultimately I think either would work - but I have not put my money down yet.  I'm also thinking maple neck with either rosewood or ebony board - but I think an alder body work work fine.

 

[TonyW]

Thanks for your input mayfly!!

I was going to use sperzel lockers as i have the last 2 guitars, they have won me over i tried them to see what the fuss was about and stringing them up is a breeze.

I was looking at the L5S yesterday and i am really digging the look of them, i think theres one jackthehack did  its flame Korina
in tru oil thats a real gem that made me sit up and take notice http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=2669.0
I  would probably go black korina as some of the bodies on showcase have been knocking me out with this timber but this maybe a little too dark tone wise. It may just end up being alder. Either that or maybe a solid body LPS in mahogony but i would prefer to make a junior out of an LPS  :dontknow: it does my head in just thinking about it. Theres a chambered mahgogony on mahogony tele that looks real nice in the showcase that mightnt have enough weight in it its 3lb 4 oz. A Jazzmaster body is definately still in the plan as well.

I have a GFS rwrp strat lipstick and 2 dano lipsticks that would need some work on to fit just sitting in my parts bin, i had thought lipsticks in a 12 string for the string spread previously but am unsure then i spotted the TV Jones. I might even venture back over to harmonic design, the Z90 i own have huge pole pieces that would cover the spread. I tried the z90 in my mates crapper tele and they are cream. I am going to start winding my own pups but i dont know when at this stage, i used to wind in the 70's so its something also in the back of the mind.

I also worked out how to get the wife to let me have as many builds as i want without kicking up a stink... i bought her a new car last week and her words were have as many guitars as you like, i got that on my Zoom H2 recorder for future reference  :cool01:

 

[TonyW]

I like this Custom neck which is the same style another online supplier does.
I just found this one in the showcase. I like it heaps better than the hockey stick.
I just dont know if i like the pearloid block inlays.

 

[Mor Paul]

That's new.

And that thing looks really wide. I like my guitar teacher's 89 Ovation 12 string. Barely wider than my acoustics.

 

[tfarny]

That's a great neck, and the blocks really make it. A 12 string should be over the top to some extent. That would look awesome on a jazzmaster body with the humbucker-sized tv joneses.

 

[Mor Paul]

Oh, I didn't say I like it.

I do.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

The other pickups I found that do the Ric sound are the GFS Retrotron Memphis Alnico 2 pickups

http://store.guitarfetish.com/meal2ritovij.html

The Harmony Central reviews are pretty nice on them, if that sort of thing is to be trusted, and they are very budget conscious.  Was thinking of making a guitar with them, but got sidetracked with some amp projects...
Patrick

 

[TonyW]

That's a great neck, and the blocks really make it. A 12 string should be over the top to some extent. That would look awesome on a jazzmaster body with the humbucker-sized tv joneses.

Keep talking i am likely to pull the trigger on it, and i need someone to blame  :laughing7:

Those GFS pups are only $35US i guess you could try a set even if they didnt work out they could go in another build.
I have a pair of their lipsticks in my dano that i havent wired up yet so cant comment.

 

[tfarny]

You definitely need that neck. Your life will be shallow and meaningless until it arrives on your doorstep....... :toothy12: :toothy12: :toothy12:

 

[TonyW]

I keep looking at it but i just can get my head around the blocks  :icon_scratch:

 

[mayfly]

You better buy it before I do

Actually, I think it would look better with binding.  Just me I guess.

One last thing I forgot from before:  Rickenbacker 12s are setup differently from other 12 strings:  The treble strings are on the bottom rather than the top.

 

[OzziePete]

You better buy it before I do

Actually, I think it would look better with binding.  Just me I guess.

One last thing I forgot from before:  Rickenbacker 12s are setup differently from other 12 strings:  The treble strings are on the bottom rather than the top.

The other thing to consider about Rickenbacker is that they probably know very well, just which sort of maple to use with their 12 stringers & the pickup configuration they have.

On the issue of weight, I can vouch for maple - all solid - being quite heavy. That JM maple body I was talking about in my own Thread, when matched with the maple and ebony neck, weighs almost as much as my MIJ P-Bass!

Have you thought about De'Armond pickups, or even P-90s? Or, good heavens, Jazzmaster or Jaguar pickups. The Jags can be remarkably clear, while those JM pickups have their own distinct sound, which I am guessing is not too suited to 12 string jangle. But maybe you would disagree with that.

If you know what sound you want, and know how to wind the pickups, maybe wait til you are ready to do your own pickups and match the sonic responses of the assembled guitar.

 

[TonyW]

Yeah pickup wise thats why i am considering the HD Z90 a P90 clone in a HB route but with a bit more response all round.
If i roll my own pickups they will be strat type for a start until i get my hand back in, probably do another strat when i get winding.
Looking at all maple too, its just theres so many tonewood options.

mayfly go for it mate lol and yeah i knew they were strung in reverse but thanks for the info, i was even thinking of cutting 2 nuts and see what i liked sound wise.

I am thinking too that the LS5 would be great/better as a 6 string maybe with a Bigsby, i am getting totally off track here  ???

Working on the jazzmaster angle at the moment and doing away with the chambered body for maybe just a plain solid alder, or go a bit warmer with mahogony?

 

[OzziePete]

Working on the jazzmaster angle at the moment and doing away with the chambered body for maybe just a plain solid alder, or go a bit warmer with mahogony?

By using mahogany, you may be colouring the sound away from the classic Ricky sound. Have you thought of a maple body for the L5S shape, that would be close to what the Ricky 360s would be like in construction and wood? A L5S hollow body, done with a bodywood of maple and lam top of flame maple is US$347 unfinished, and the body shape would have a fair bit of real estate under that top to bounce all the harmonics around (similar to what the 360s must do?). The mahogany JM is US$195 all solid or US$270 with a lam top (unfinished).

Given the high exchange rate the Aussie dollar is getting against the US$ at the moment, now rather than later might be a good time to pull the trigger too.

 

[TonyW]

G'day Pete

i was looking at the maple bodies and am really liking the LS5 shape more and more after seeing some similar looking bodies
on youtube so thats still a chance and yeah i agree the mahogony may cloud it up a bit.

First thing i do in the morning is watch the Kanga against the greenback, i bought all the Baritone gear at around 82c i put my strat together at 98cents, as long as it stays above 80cents i will stay in the game, i think it was 86c this morning. I need a couple of weeks to clean my credit card up after a few bills came in unexpected then i am off again (looks over shoulder sees if wifes watching  :laughing7: ) then i am good to go.

 

[tfarny]

What kind of bridge will you use for that? I've seen 12 string tele and strat hardtail bridges from gotoh, but the only 12 string TOM I've seen was just two notches filed on each saddle, got to be bad for intonation.

 

[mayfly]

What kind of bridge will you use for that? I've seen 12 string tele and strat hardtail bridges from gotoh, but the only 12 string TOM I've seen was just two notches filed on each saddle, got to be bad for intonation.

Rick 12's are the same - single saddle for both.  According to Rick lore, the gauges/string tension of rick branded strings are designed so that the lower and upper strings intonate even if they are on the same saddle.  My experience on my 360/12 is that is is not quite true in real life  :laughing7: