neck finish

[Sponger D.]

Just completed a VERY nice Warmoth neck (Tele vintage/modern, LSR roller nut, maple, dark ebony fretboard, 6130 low frets, Fender locking staggered chrome tuners).  This connected to a Fender branded swamp ash Butterscotch Blonde 6lb 4oz body off eBay.  I installed B5 Bigsby, Callaham Bigsby string shaft and roller, and Callaham compensated bridge assembly for Bigsby which I modified.  Lindy Fralin pups.  So I wanted to do neck (masked off fretboard) vintage amber.  After doing bunches of research, started with shellac and added amber tint- took forever and didn't like results.  So I got StewMac Colortone sprays: nitro sanding sealer, nitro vintage amber, and nitro clear gloss.  Seemed OK.  Took off masking tape and went to remove goo from tape with denatured alcohol and the finish came off like it was lipstick. W  T  F ! ! ! ! !  I have a lot of StewMac stuff- pretty good.  I double checked on a piece of poplar board going sanding sealer nitro spray>grain filler X 2>sanding sealer nitro spray X2>vintage amber nitro X3>gloss nitro X3>ample time between all coats.  Same thing.  F'ing joke.  So much wasted time and money.  To do the neck right, I will have to disassemble, strip and start over- no way.  So now it has a "used and abused" look- fine with me.  And I didn't have to pay extra!

How bout surfboard resin over some sort of serious clear primer?  I know that s**t WORKS!  I'm done with tinkering.  I have another maple neck coming from Warmoth and want to do vintage amber gloss.  HELP!!!

BTW, I know there are a lot of variables in this art.  But without changing anything on the body, I swaped to this neck from another Warmoth neck, and the change was unbelieveable.  Pushes my playing (such as it is) to a whole new level.  Never had a guitar anything like it- synergy accidental?  I don't care- luv it!!! 

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Looks great! Although the picture is seriously messing with my mind, does it levitate? Also: Welcome to the forum!

 

[Sponger D.]

Thanks- very happy to be in the forum!!

Guitar is hung upside down from a boom against white backdrop in sunlight.  Then rotate in Photoshop.  Glad you like it.  Will cut and paste a better version on a sky background to make it really levitate at sme point.  I'm telling you, this neck is blowing my mind. 

 

[Cagey]

If you're going to get another neck, let Warmoth finish it. It's a bargain. Plus, their finishes are not only perfect, they're extremely durable. DIY finishing is never a money saver, it's a labor of love, so if you can't/won't do a pro finish, let the pros do it. You won't be sorry.

 

[Sponger D.]

Ya Cagey: it's tempting.  Takes 5 weeks (?).  Thing is, I still wanna do headstock decal and serial no, MADE in USA on back decal.  So still gotta do some finishing on headstock even if I have Warmoth do the finishing first.

At this point, I'm thinking use the Colortone Nitro spray process described.  Then put surfboard resin coat or two as final.  Will do test boards first. 

 

[TBurst Std]

Doesn’t alcohol remove nitro?
I believe naptha plays well with nitro

 

[Sponger D.]

Seems to me that any guitar part should be able to resist alcohol.  I don't think any stock fender can have finish anywhere on it disolved by alcohol (tried it on one of my stock necks).  I was told by StewMac that naptha will work on cleaning the tape glue from my neck finished with their Colortone nitro without disolving their nitro.  So at least I can do that.  They also said that the finish will be stronger after several months.  I'm skeptical- but we'll see.

 

[Cagey]

Alcohol doesn't affect nitro finishes, but it may affect something underneath and give the impression the nitro is letting go. Naphtha is the stuff to use for cleaning gum/glue/crud/etc. off guitars.

 

[Sponger D.]

A couple drops et right thru every layer down to the bare wood in about 1 or two minutes.  That said, the final coat had only dried for about 14 hours when I did the test.  I'm talkin about "denatured alcohol" from Home Depot.
  StewMac says that letting it cure for a month or two will make a difference.  I'll see.

 

[Cagey]

That's weird. I know acetone will do that, at about that speed or better, but alcohol? Never heard of it behaving that way. Although, I don't use much of the stuff. Acetone for thinning nitro, and naphtha for just about everything else.

The advice from StewMac as far as waiting to a full cure is good. Many finishes are harmed by impatience. But, that's not for solvent resistance. That's just for hardness. A good gloss depends on it.

 

[Rick]

On my next neck (maple back) I’m going to use keda dye (make it vintage amber with a little extra orange) and finish with Truoil.  I just finished a body with wudtone followed by truoil. Came out greeeaat! But total time to finish ... 35 hours. Wudtone. Makes some neck kits.  Welcome aboard.  If you don’t have the time the warmoth finish is a bargain. But you have options and it’ll come out fine in the end.

As to the curing of truoil, I found it needs about 6 weeks, though I had one neck that took over two months.

I like the dye and truoil approach but it takes a long time.

I estimate it will cost about $40 to finish the neck, as I have to buy the dye, oil, rags and sanding material, plus the scratch x after it cures.

 

[AirCap]

Finishing has always been the longest part of building anything. When Henry Ford built Model T's, the car itself could be assembled in 24 hours, but the finishing department (back then they used black shellac) took weeks. It was the most labor intensive (and therefore expensive) part of the process.

Today is no different. Applying a finish isn't the problem. It's waiting for it to dry or cure that makes some of us antsy. You can have it fast, or you can have it good. Pick one and live with the result.

 

[stratamania]

And good preparation is also key to a good finish.

Finish contrary to popular belief does not always hide a multitude of sins but only highlights them.

 

[Sponger D.]

Rick:

Thanks for the welcome- great forum.  And I really like Warmoth stuff I've bought so far.  Hope they will be around for a while.

I have some Trueoil and messed with it a little.  Didn't realize that much time was needed.  Does it soak into the wood?  Or actually set on the surface like a layer of finish?  I don't think I can handle the waiting- plus I like gloss.

 

[Sponger D.]

Air Cap:

So I'm learning- Warmoth basically said the same.  Didn't realize the hoops ya gotta go thru.  He said they finish in climate controlled rooms including de-humidification.  And take minimum 4 weeks.

So I'm gonna try to cheat a little- but may work out OK.  I think we're all familiar with surfboard or marine resins- x amount of drops per quart, etc.  There may be more than one type- gotta research.  I may try the Colortone nitro process I described above and put resin clear over.  But the resin may eat the nitro.  So I may need to research other ways to amber tint the wood that will work under resin.  I know sone people are using resins on bodies.  Some pretty cool artsy stuff out there!  I've worked a little with it- I have a Makita buffing set up for surfboard finishes.  I will experiment on poplar test boards.  Or I may just live with the limitations of the Colortone nitro.     

 

[stratamania]

Tru Oil is actually a drying varnish. How much it would soak into something or not is dependent on the wood. Ash would soak it up, but maple not really.

 

[BroccoliRob]

My last post ITT got deleted (understandably since I was jacked up on gamer-water and got off topic...... Please accept my apologizations) so I'll just ask my main question again:

can one use surfboard resin on wood? What the heliotrope is that snizz?

 

[Rick]

  Does it soak into the wood?  Or actually set on the surface like a layer of finish?  I don't think I can handle the waiting- plus I like gloss.

I'm no expert on what happens on the molecular level, so one of the scientists here can tell you better.  I can tell you my perception though ...
An aniline dye like Keda will not be molested by the tru-oil, if it's been allowed to dry.  Also, Tru-oil is fine on plain wood.  I perceive that the first two or three coats of tru-oil absorb into the wood (regardless of whether it's swamp ash or maple), after that each successive coat adheres to the previous coat and builds.  As such it is amenable with decals.  If you have the time, you can apply every 12 hours, and sometime after 12 coats you'll have enough thickness, though some people like me go to 30 but that's OCD and make it so there are no overruns.  I just hit the overruns with scotchbrite or 0000.  After that you let it hang to cure for a month or so, probably about 6 weeks, and then you can buff it with scratch x, and it looks great.  It's the thinnest gloss finish you can imagine, and it shines.  There are plenty of resources here, and other places on the internet if your interested in this kind of finish.

I like it because my wife doesn't complain about the smell, and I don't start drooling from the fumes.  Plus, it's something I can manage. 

 

[Sponger D.]

Rick:

Sorry for late response- new to Warmoth forums- didn't see page 2. 

Thanks for info.  Quite involved.  Would have to try it myself to really get it.

 

[Sponger D.]

My last post ITT got deleted (understandably since I was jacked up on gamer-water and got off topic...... Please accept my apologizations) so I'll just ask my main question again:

can one use surfboard resin on wood? What the heliotrope is that snizz?

Well...... several ways to respond to this:

In a recent peer-reviewed study, professor Fonseca leParque concluded:  "Horticulturalists can't be counted on to have unbiased opinions about crane worshipers."  I'm surely am not as credentialed as he.  However, in my amateur way, I had already pretty much reached the same conclusion.

Seriously though.....  I bought some Solarez UV curing resin grain filler and gloss top coat- and a 50 watt UV lamp.  Seems to work real good.  On another Warmoth body I'm working on (roasted Alder), I had enlarged the neck pickup pocket with a router- so wood was raw.  I wanted to finish the pocket with something so the shielding foil tape would have something to stick to.  The Solarez "Grain Sealer" sealed completely in one coat- no soaking in at all. 

On another neck I'm working on that is similar to the one that is the subject of this thread, the headstock seemed not to have been "sealed" at Warmoth- the neck itself was OK and would take nitro coats.  But the headstock area kept drinking and drinking.  After about the fourth coat of "Colortone Sanding Sealer" (I wish), I hit it with a coat of the Solarez Grain Sealer to  a c t u a l l y      s e a l    t  h e    g r a i n - and it did.  But it gets weird spraying the nitro over the Solarez: sanding shows thru.  Took it to 1500 grit wet-or-dry, and then the nitro sat nice and glossy on top.  The Solarez goes on way thicker than sprays, so you have a lot to work with when flat-sanding and polishing. 

It probably sounds odd that I would spray the Nitro over the Solarez- and it is.  The reason is that the resin melts the Rothko and Frost headstock decals- so I put the decals on the Solarez sanded to 1500- then the nitro coats over the decals.

I don't know if it's inferior to surfboard process (resin with catalyst)- nor do I know if there's gonna be a bad reaction to the nitro over the Solarez.  But it's  W A Y  more durable than the Colortone Nitro- quite hard.  And VERY convenient- let it pool a little- then cure it when your'e ready.